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2019 Indians thread

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Comments

  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Re6H5wk said:

    "They are the only team in baseball who can actually match the Astro's Cole and Verlander with Sherzer and Strasburg."

    Cole and Verlander are easily the top 1-2 punch in baseball. You don't think Bieber and Clevinger are are good as Scherzer and Strasburg, though?

    In games started by Sherzer and Stasburg, the Nationals went 4-0.  In games started by Cole and Verlander, the Astros went 1-3.  While during the season Cole and Verlander certainly were the very best, the World Series is a short slice of the long baseball season and determines who is the best at that time, not over the entire year.
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2019
    Fair enough. And now that he's won a WS, perhaps you'll learn how to spell Scherzer? ;)
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2019
    Re6H5wk said:

    Fair enough. And now that he's won a WS, perhaps you'll learn how to spell Scherzer? ;)

    Wait until you are 70.  Spelling is the only area I give President Trump a pass on. lol
    Re6H5wkTruckCrew
  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    Wheeler just signed ...5 years 18 million.  Kluber's 17.5 million is looking like a good deal.  
  • TruckCrewTruckCrew Wealthy Alum
    Kluber is headed to the Rangers. No word on a return yet.

    Twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal
    DSnyder15
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Re6H5wk said:
    He is not as good as Kipnis was in his prime, but is a small upgrade over what Jason did his last few years.  Really, with Kip gone, there were no viable options on the roster.
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Well, the Tribe still has Francisco Lindor, so at this point there is still hope for a playoff team.
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    edited January 30
    DICK said:

    Well, the Tribe still has Francisco Lindor, so at this point there is still hope for a playoff team.

    Need another OF bat. Puig, while not a great option, is still available.
  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    Re6H5wk said:

    DICK said:

    Well, the Tribe still has Francisco Lindor, so at this point there is still hope for a playoff team.

    Need another OF bat. Puig, while not a great option, is still available.
    He's about it. Just a tremendous job by management this Winter.
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
    #puigyourfriend
    Re6H5wk
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Great start.  Could have been 5-0 with a little better execution in the 3-2 10 inning loss on Saturday.  Once again, you have to tip your cap the the Indians ability to develop quality starting pitchers.  Just two years ago the Indians had the first rotation ever to have four 200 strikeout pitchers.  Because of salary/budget issues, Trevor Bauer and Cory Kluber are gone.  Last year they also lost Carrasco for most of the season with cancer, and Clevinger for a couple of months with an injury, but they still had one of the better rotations in the majors, which featured three guys who started the season in the minors.

    Anyway, this season they have had 5 different starters in the first 5 games and they all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 or less runs: Beiber 6 innings 0 runs 14/1 K's/BB, Clevinger  7 innings 2 runs 6/0, Carrasco 6 innings 2 runs 10/1, Civale 6 innings 2 runs 9/1, and Plutko 6 innings 2 runs 4/0.  Today they are pushing Beiber back to be ready for the Twins, and starting the 6th starter, Zach Plesac.
  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    Great start.  Could have been 5-0 with a little better execution in the 3-2 10 inning loss on Saturday.  Once again, you have to tip your cap the the Indians ability to develop quality starting pitchers.  Just two years ago the Indians had the first rotation ever to have four 200 strikeout pitchers.  Because of salary/budget issues, Trevor Bauer and Cory Kluber are gone.  Last year they also lost Carrasco for most of the season with cancer, and Clevinger for a couple of months with an injury, but they still had one of the better rotations in the majors, which featured three guys who started the season in the minors.


    Anyway, this season they have had 5 different starters in the first 5 games and they all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 or less runs: Beiber 6 innings 0 runs 14/1 K's/BB, Clevinger  7 innings 2 runs 6/0, Carrasco 6 innings 2 runs 10/1, Civale 6 innings 2 runs 9/1, and Plutko 6 innings 2 runs 4/0.  Today they are pushing Beiber back to be ready for the Twins, and starting the 6th starter, Zach Plesac.
    1. Plesac is the 5th starter....Plutco 6th.
    2. Bauer was a salary dump while getting younger.  Kluber was pure genius...a player they thought was physically broken down and not worth a big salary even though thy loved him.  By signing his option....they were able to pick up 2 players that will help immediately and one developmental kid.  Pure genius.  If it were purely a salary dump....they could have just not signed the opton and would be on the hook for nothing.

    At least you are not trashing the front office for ruining the team this year.  You are a Reds fan....so it is understandable that you miss a few things outside your comfort zone.
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.

    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    edited July 30
    DICK said:

    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.


    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




    I know you like to judge things from what you see but you could have checked here:



    Based and what you saw and knew....who was available last year in September as replacement for Jose??  Trade deadline had long past and the August window was closed by the league....maybe you were not aware of these facts.   
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    edited July 30
    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.


    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




    I know you like to judge things from what you see but you could have checked here:



    Based and what you saw and knew....who was available last year in September as replacement for Jose??  Trade deadline had long past and the August window was closed by the league....maybe you were not aware of these facts.   
    I am not going to go back and repeat posts, this topic was discussed last year on this thread.  just go back and look.  Jordy Mercer was one suggestion.  Players are put on waivers every single day and there are almost always veterans available at that time of the year who are being paid a decent amount of money and the teams would be glad to get rid of them.
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    edited July 30
    Shane Beiber was just as sensational tonight a his first start, and in fact tied an all time MLB record with 27 strikeouts in his first two starts.  8 innings, 0 runs, 13 K's 0 walks.  And this was against a great hitting team. Plus, the Tribe has a rookie in the bullpen who has been unhittable in two appearances this week.  James Karinchak.  If you play fantasy baseball, he is available in your league, go get him.  I did immediately after the game.
  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.


    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




    I know you like to judge things from what you see but you could have checked here:



    Based and what you saw and knew....who was available last year in September as replacement for Jose??  Trade deadline had long past and the August window was closed by the league....maybe you were not aware of these facts.   
    I am not going to go back and repeat posts, this topic was discussed last year on this thread.  just go back and look.  Jordy Mercer was one suggestion.  Players are put on waivers every single day and there are almost always veterans available at that time of the year who are being paid a decent amount of money and the teams would be glad to get rid of them.
    Cleveland was 18-10 without Jose.  How much better do you think they would have played with any of the free agents that were available??  
  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    Shane Beiber was just as sensational tonight a his first start, and in fact tied an all time MLB record with 27 strikeouts in his first two starts.  8 innings, 0 runs, 13 K's 0 walks.  And this was against a great hitting team. Plus, the Tribe has a rookie in the bullpen who has been unhittable in two appearances this week.  James Karinchak.  If you play fantasy baseball, he is available in your league, go get him.  I did immediately after the game.

    Oh sure, Bieber and Krotchrot have been great but, to me and only me, they are only great because of the front office.
    DICK
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.


    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




    I know you like to judge things from what you see but you could have checked here:



    Based and what you saw and knew....who was available last year in September as replacement for Jose??  Trade deadline had long past and the August window was closed by the league....maybe you were not aware of these facts.   
    I am not going to go back and repeat posts, this topic was discussed last year on this thread.  just go back and look.  Jordy Mercer was one suggestion.  Players are put on waivers every single day and there are almost always veterans available at that time of the year who are being paid a decent amount of money and the teams would be glad to get rid of them.
    Cleveland was 18-10 without Jose.  How much better do you think they would have played with any of the free agents that were available??  
    Well, another win or two would have gotten them into the playoffs.  3B was a very weak position in September, with Yu Chang and Mike Freeman being about the weakest 3B combo in the majors, so it easily could have made the difference. We also had a poor start to the season which put the Tribe in a hole, playing guys like Max Moroff, Yu Chang, Leonys Martin, Eric Stamets, Carlos Gonzalez, and Hanley Ramirez, which is why I criticized the front office/ownership early in the season...  Chang is the only guy out of that entire group that is still playing in the majors, AFAIK.

    While we still have Lindor, we ought to be going all out to win now.  Those examples above show that the Indians were not all in last year, IMO.  Unfortunately, my saying they were not going for it ended up being basically correct, as we just missed.  The win total of the Indians was very good, but all the top AL teams last year had inflated records because there were so many AL teams who were rebuilding and not trying to win last season, including the Tigers, Royals, White Sox, Orioles, Blue Jays, and Mariners. The NL had only the Marlins in that category.

    Doug, you also made predictions around the All Star break.  Yours did not end up being right.  I think you would agree that losing Ramirez ( and not really replacing him with a good player) cost your prediction its chance of being right.
  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    DSnyder15 said:

    DICK said:

    Well, Plesac is the 6th man to start so far.  He should be the 5th starter, yes.  Anyway, he had a sensational start tonight, 8 innings 0 runs, 11 strikeouts 0 walks.   Bullpen and offense failed and ended up wasting a great outing. So 6 straight quality starts by 6 different guys.


    Even as late at September last year, if they had just spent a little money and got a 3B to replace Jose when he missed 3 or 4 weeks, probably would have made the playoffs.

    Twins have a great offense, so keeping this starting streak going through this weekend is a long shot.  First 6 starts and all went at least 6 innings and gave up 2 runs  or less.  Plus I think Tom Hamilton said 56 strikeouts in 39 innings for the starters.




    I know you like to judge things from what you see but you could have checked here:



    Based and what you saw and knew....who was available last year in September as replacement for Jose??  Trade deadline had long past and the August window was closed by the league....maybe you were not aware of these facts.   
    I am not going to go back and repeat posts, this topic was discussed last year on this thread.  just go back and look.  Jordy Mercer was one suggestion.  Players are put on waivers every single day and there are almost always veterans available at that time of the year who are being paid a decent amount of money and the teams would be glad to get rid of them.
    Cleveland was 18-10 without Jose.  How much better do you think they would have played with any of the free agents that were available??  
    Well, another win or two would have gotten them into the playoffs.  3B was a very weak position in September, with Yu Chang and Mike Freeman being about the weakest 3B combo in the majors, so it easily could have made the difference. We also had a poor start to the season which put the Tribe in a hole, playing guys like Max Moroff, Yu Chang, Leonys Martin, Eric Stamets, Carlos Gonzalez, and Hanley Ramirez, which is why I criticized the front office/ownership early in the season...  Chang is the only guy out of that entire group that is still playing in the majors, AFAIK.

    While we still have Lindor, we ought to be going all out to win now.  Those examples above show that the Indians were not all in last year, IMO.  Unfortunately, my saying they were not going for it ended up being basically correct, as we just missed.  The win total of the Indians was very good, but all the top AL teams last year had inflated records because there were so many AL teams who were rebuilding and not trying to win last season, including the Tigers, Royals, White Sox, Orioles, Blue Jays, and Mariners. The NL had only the Marlins in that category.

    Doug, you also made predictions around the All Star break.  Yours did not end up being right.  I think you would agree that losing Ramirez ( and not really replacing him with a good player) cost your prediction its chance of being right.
    Cleveland was 18-10 while Jose was injured and 1-5 after his return. I do not believe there was any free agent that would have helped the team to a better record during Jose's absence.  They won with pitching and lost with pitching.  They gave up 8 runs a game in the 15 losses (after Jose's injury).....only one of those losses by 1 run.  A bat is not what they needed.
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Well, this topic from last year has been completely covered. Now and previously at the close of last season.  Your final point is that the loss of Jose Ramirez for 4 weeks in September and not replacing him with any outside help had no effect on the record.  Yu Chang and Mike Freeman ( argueably the weakest 3B in the majors at that point) were as good as they could do.  Another win or two and the Tribe would have been in the postseason.  Also, your midseason prediction turned out wrong, my early season prediction unfortunately turned our right.

    Lets argue about this year from now on, lol  The Indians pitching is strong, offense has been very weak so far.  I saw that Tito missed the game today because of a "minor" gastrointestinal issue.  I really wish he had  just taken the year off, because he has enough health issues that Covid could be very harmful to him.  I think they are going to be careful with him, hope that was the case today.
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