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7 schools to leave WCHA

thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
edited June 28 in Rogue Boosters
The Alaskas and Huntsville aren't going to have hockey any more, it appears.


"Seven prominent NCAA Division I men's hockey playing institutions have announced the exploration of a new Division I men's hockey conference that would begin play with the 2021-2022 season. The seven institutions include: Bemidji State University; Bowling Green State University; Ferris State University; Lake Superior State University; Michigan Technological University; Minnesota State University, Mankato; and Northern Michigan University."
redhawk11
«1

Comments

  • Professor_FateProfessor_Fate Wealthy Alum
    Same statement from College Hockey News, too


    I do find the following from the article interesting: 

    "There have long been rumblings are various schools discussing a new conference, trying to create something more geographically appropriate, and help with growing travel costs.  Obviously, the costs involved with going to places like Alaska and Huntsville are part of the issue.   Many of the discussions, as informal as they'd been so far, involved a variety of Atlantic Hockey schools, such as ones close to the Midwest like Merchyhurst and Robert Morris.  But nothing had yet come to pass."


    adamsdj14
  • elpalitoelpalito Wealthy Alum
    UAH might have a team.... Alaska schools took a hit. 
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    Why aren’t we included on that list???
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    Our current situation is objectively better than that one. You don't leave the Pac 12 for the Mountain West, after all.
  • MooreHawkMooreHawk Off-Campus Slummer

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    I personally don't really want to leave the NCHC but the WCHA is much more tempting without the Alaskan teams and UAH. If the NCHC swap us and WMU for Mankato and Bemidji that would be a pretty fun conference.


    elpalito said:

    UAH might have a team.... Alaska schools took a hit. 

    Today the Alaskan governor vetoed 130 million in state support for the University of Alaska system which is about 41% of the money they get. Alaskan NCAA athletics as a whole might be over.

    UAH has to either try to convince the 7 teams leaving to let them come along or try to join Atlantic Hockey most likely. It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. Maybe they can make independence work but I think it'll be hard.
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    edited June 29

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    Our current situation is objectively better than that one. You don't leave the Pac 12 for the Mountain West, after all.
    Why because the conference has better hockey programs?

    Question: does conference affiliation REALLY matter in college hockey? We haven’t had any success since the move, our travel budget has to be through the roof, and we aren’t reaping any extra benefits (TV revenue).
    mooseProfessor_Fate
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    MooreHawk said:

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    I personally don't really want to leave the NCHC but the WCHA is much more tempting without the Alaskan teams and UAH. If the NCHC swap us and WMU for Mankato and Bemidji that would be a pretty fun conference.



    That would certainly make more geographical sense.
  • Love_and_HonorLove_and_Honor Wealthy Alum
    Leaving the NCHC now is kinda like if the Southwest Conference reformed without UT and A&M but left Rice out, yet Arkansas went with them. Romantic, but illogical.
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    Our current situation is objectively better than that one. You don't leave the Pac 12 for the Mountain West, after all.
    Why because the conference has better hockey programs?

    Question: does conference affiliation REALLY matter in college hockey? We haven’t had any success since the move, our travel budget has to be through the roof, and we aren’t reaping any extra benefits (TV revenue).
    Except for us winning the conference and we have significantly more TV revenue than whatever this will be.
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    I honestly know nothing, except that we aren’t very good anymore.... are you saying in order to make money, we need to win the conference?
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum

    I honestly know nothing, except that we aren’t very good anymore.... are you saying in order to make money, we need to win the conference?

    No, I'm saying we've already won the NCHC once. We also have one of the best recruiting classes coming down the road (more USNDTP prospects than any college). Going to this new conference would kill everything that's been built for the program.
  • NYCRedHawkNYCRedHawk Off-Campus Slummer
    Are these recruits still committed in the wake of Rico being fired?
    JiveHawk said:

    I honestly know nothing, except that we aren’t very good anymore.... are you saying in order to make money, we need to win the conference?

    No, I'm saying we've already won the NCHC once. We also have one of the best recruiting classes coming down the road (more USNDTP prospects than any college). Going to this new conference would kill everything that's been built for the program.
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    JiveHawk said:

    I honestly know nothing, except that we aren’t very good anymore.... are you saying in order to make money, we need to win the conference?

    No, I'm saying we've already won the NCHC once. We also have one of the best recruiting classes coming down the road (more USNDTP prospects than any college). Going to this new conference would kill everything that's been built for the program.
    Honest question- does conference affiliation matter to recruits?

    Looking at this chart: https://www.neutralzone.net/mens/2019/04/01/ncaa-d1-mens-hockey-recruiting-class-rankings-study-2016-2019/

    Only 2 in the top 15. Same site ranks BU and Western Michigan as the top two recruiting classes next year. You need to pay for the rest.
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum

    JiveHawk said:

    I honestly know nothing, except that we aren’t very good anymore.... are you saying in order to make money, we need to win the conference?

    No, I'm saying we've already won the NCHC once. We also have one of the best recruiting classes coming down the road (more USNDTP prospects than any college). Going to this new conference would kill everything that's been built for the program.
    Honest question- does conference affiliation matter to recruits?

    Looking at this chart: https://www.neutralzone.net/mens/2019/04/01/ncaa-d1-mens-hockey-recruiting-class-rankings-study-2016-2019/

    Only 2 in the top 15. Same site ranks BU and Western Michigan as the top two recruiting classes next year. You need to pay for the rest.
    All 8 NCHC schools were on the list, with the lowest being 33rd. Of the 7 schools shooting to form this new conference, only 3 (by my quick count) made the top 40 of just over 60 D1 programs. Nearly the whole top of the list was NCHC, Big 10, and Hockey East. Take a peek at where the USNDT kids are committed right now and I'm guessing you see a trend of those 3 as well. It really makes a huge difference.
  • BonkBonk Off-Campus Slummer
    edited July 7
    It's a HUGE factor in kids' decisions! This league is one of the best recruiting tools Miami has.

    There are tons of scouts that come out to see NCHC games because of the high level of play.

    I cringe every time I read about how Miami (and Western) should switch for geographic purposes and could be open to that.

    I especially cringe when I read it from Miami alums/fans who should know better.

    Miami is in the best college hockey league in the world, and yeah, the travel isn't ideal, and yeah, the team has struggled the past few years, but does anyone seriously believe that waving a white flag and dropping to a lower league over a couple of extra flights a year will fix this program?

    There are people who seriously believe, probably because they don't watch enough hockey, that Miami's struggles are the result of its shift to the NCHC. 

    We should be ECSTATIC that this window of suck has happened while Miami has been in this league. Miami's stock had never been higher when the NCHC was formed, and had Miami had to change conferences now, there's no way it  would've been included in such a power league playing the way it has the past five years.

    I just don't understand why for some reason some people don't like Miami being in the best D-1 conference in college hockey by far and want to shift to a lower-tier league over a bad five-year run.






    dave67JohnnyMacmooseLove_and_HonorDSnyder15thechuck_2112profholt82killgas20skin66D_Dayand 2 others.
  • BonkBonk Off-Campus Slummer

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    Because Miami doesn't and never has played in the WCHA?
  • MiamiRedskinsMiamiRedskins Havighurstite
    Bonk said:

    Why aren’t we included on that list???

    Because Miami doesn't and never has played in the WCHA?
    Better question why would we want to be on that list
    DSnyder15thechuck_2112
  • Iam4hawksIam4hawks Senior Barfly
    If Western went with us, I'd go in a minute. 

    JiveHawk
  • LurkerLurker Summer Orientee
    Bonk said:

    It's a HUGE factor in kids' decisions! This league is one of the best recruiting tools Miami has.


    Hold this thought.
    Bonk said:

    There are tons of scouts that come out to see NCHC games because of the high level of play.


    Scouts scout other teams in other leagues. Including the WCHA. Scouting is not unique to the NCHC.
    Bonk said:

    I cringe every time I read about how Miami (and Western) should switch for geographic purposes and could be open to that.


    I especially cringe when I read it from Miami alums/fans who should know better.

    Miami is in the best college hockey league in the world, and yeah, the travel isn't ideal,

    We are an FBS school trying to stay relevant in a football arms race. Fortunately we have the best facilities in the MAC. However, as long as we, or any MAC school, want to stay relevant in this arms race, cash will always be king. We have one of the higher athletic budgets in the MAC. We are also towards the top of the MAC in borrowing from the general fund to cover athletic cost overruns. This while the cost of education continues to climb with no end in sight. And while you can dismiss this with a wave of your hand that “the travel isn’t ideal,” I assure you Sayler's fiduciary responsibilities do not allow him to feel this cavalier about the situation. And with year-over-year attendance declining (FFS, BUGS outdrew us this year!) that revenue/cost gap has widened substantially since we joined. Folks, this is not sustainable. While we have benefited greatly from our benefactors, we’re still an FBS MAC school. At the rate we’re going, the cash will eventually run out.
    Bonk said:

    and yeah, the team has struggled the past few years, but does anyone seriously believe that waving a white flag and dropping to a lower league over a couple of extra flights a year will fix this program?


    There are people who seriously believe, probably because they don't watch enough hockey, that Miami's struggles are the result of its shift to the NCHC. 

    Wait. I thought you opened with the league being one the best recruiting tools we have. Every year I read how THIS year the recruits we have are awesome. Read it again this week regarding the USNTDP kids coming in. Mmmmmkaaaaayyyyy, so it’s not the recruits or recruiting, it’s certainly not the facilities, so it must be on-ice coaching. Well, much to my dismay, we just hired a guy with a pedigree for building plodding, defense-only teams in a clutch-and-grab league who now has to adapt that to the NCHC style of play. Then he brings along an assistant responsible for building offenses with, at best, marginal offensive results. Oh…and this is the guy who has a history of not getting his teams to close. This year, BUGS was up 2 goals in the WCHA championship game with 2 minutes to go and lost. And they were up 1 goal with 3 minutes left against Duluth in the NCAA first round and lost. And do I have to remind the group about BU in ’09? And you feel confident this is going to succeed? Mmmmmkaaaaayyyyy……
    Bonk said:

    We should be ECSTATIC that this window of suck has happened while Miami has been in this league. Miami's stock had never been higher when the NCHC was formed, and had Miami had to change conferences now, there's no way it  would've been included in such a power league playing the way it has the past five years.


    Ever read SiouxSports.com? They feel the exact same way about us. The phrase I saw was “Why Miami?” That doesn’t feel good to me.
    Bonk said:

    I just don't understand why for some reason some people don't like Miami being in the best D-1 conference in college hockey by far and want to shift to a lower-tier league over a bad five-year run.


    To date I’ve always been 100% with you regarding being in the NCHC and I’ve loved being in the best conference. Given the circumstances that you lay out, it has unarguably been THE place for us. However, in light of this new opportunity that just presented itself, the circumstances have now changed and the luster of being in the best D1 league simply to be in the league has worn off. We now have a coach with a proven track record of success (well, except for closing the deal) in building a team to compete in this new type of league – a league that will be markedly better after jettisoning all that dead weight. We have a chance to significantly lower our operational costs and while that doesn’t mean much to you, it certainly does to the administration. We have a chance to finally build some rivalries and pack our barn again. 

    If Western is also in, sign me up. 

    Back to lurking.



    Bash_RiprockagcDICK
  • MUHawk84MUHawk84 Wealthy Alum
    Lurker said:

    Bonk said:

    It's a HUGE factor in kids' decisions! This league is one of the best recruiting tools Miami has.


    Hold this thought.
    Bonk said:

    There are tons of scouts that come out to see NCHC games because of the high level of play.


    Scouts scout other teams in other leagues. Including the WCHA. Scouting is not unique to the NCHC.
    Bonk said:

    I cringe every time I read about how Miami (and Western) should switch for geographic purposes and could be open to that.


    I especially cringe when I read it from Miami alums/fans who should know better.

    Miami is in the best college hockey league in the world, and yeah, the travel isn't ideal,

    We are an FBS school trying to stay relevant in a football arms race. Fortunately we have the best facilities in the MAC. However, as long as we, or any MAC school, want to stay relevant in this arms race, cash will always be king. We have one of the higher athletic budgets in the MAC. We are also towards the top of the MAC in borrowing from the general fund to cover athletic cost overruns. This while the cost of education continues to climb with no end in sight. And while you can dismiss this with a wave of your hand that “the travel isn’t ideal,” I assure you Sayler's fiduciary responsibilities do not allow him to feel this cavalier about the situation. And with year-over-year attendance declining (FFS, BUGS outdrew us this year!) that revenue/cost gap has widened substantially since we joined. Folks, this is not sustainable. While we have benefited greatly from our benefactors, we’re still an FBS MAC school. At the rate we’re going, the cash will eventually run out.
    Bonk said:

    and yeah, the team has struggled the past few years, but does anyone seriously believe that waving a white flag and dropping to a lower league over a couple of extra flights a year will fix this program?


    There are people who seriously believe, probably because they don't watch enough hockey, that Miami's struggles are the result of its shift to the NCHC. 

    Wait. I thought you opened with the league being one the best recruiting tools we have. Every year I read how THIS year the recruits we have are awesome. Read it again this week regarding the USNTDP kids coming in. Mmmmmkaaaaayyyyy, so it’s not the recruits or recruiting, it’s certainly not the facilities, so it must be on-ice coaching. Well, much to my dismay, we just hired a guy with a pedigree for building plodding, defense-only teams in a clutch-and-grab league who now has to adapt that to the NCHC style of play. Then he brings along an assistant responsible for building offenses with, at best, marginal offensive results. Oh…and this is the guy who has a history of not getting his teams to close. This year, BUGS was up 2 goals in the WCHA championship game with 2 minutes to go and lost. And they were up 1 goal with 3 minutes left against Duluth in the NCAA first round and lost. And do I have to remind the group about BU in ’09? And you feel confident this is going to succeed? Mmmmmkaaaaayyyyy……
    Bonk said:

    We should be ECSTATIC that this window of suck has happened while Miami has been in this league. Miami's stock had never been higher when the NCHC was formed, and had Miami had to change conferences now, there's no way it  would've been included in such a power league playing the way it has the past five years.


    Ever read SiouxSports.com? They feel the exact same way about us. The phrase I saw was “Why Miami?” That doesn’t feel good to me.
    Bonk said:

    I just don't understand why for some reason some people don't like Miami being in the best D-1 conference in college hockey by far and want to shift to a lower-tier league over a bad five-year run.


    To date I’ve always been 100% with you regarding being in the NCHC and I’ve loved being in the best conference. Given the circumstances that you lay out, it has unarguably been THE place for us. However, in light of this new opportunity that just presented itself, the circumstances have now changed and the luster of being in the best D1 league simply to be in the league has worn off. We now have a coach with a proven track record of success (well, except for closing the deal) in building a team to compete in this new type of league – a league that will be markedly better after jettisoning all that dead weight. We have a chance to significantly lower our operational costs and while that doesn’t mean much to you, it certainly does to the administration. We have a chance to finally build some rivalries and pack our barn again. 

    If Western is also in, sign me up. 

    Back to lurking.



    I don't necessarily buy the thought that joining this potential league would create any new rivalries....
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    I sense another bad decision on the horizon....and lots more to bitch about on Hawk Talk. It's the way we roll.
    DSnyder15thechuck_2112elpalito
  • Joe_NJoe_N Summer Orientee
    Bring back the CCHA!
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
    edited July 8
    Would the operational costs really be any better in his new league? Looks to me like we’d be flying everywhere except BG and Ferris State. Cutting what, one plane trip a year?
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum

    Would the operational costs really be any better in his new league? Looks to me like we’d be flying everywhere except BG and Ferris State. Cutting what, one plane trip a year?

    I was also thinking flying to Denver might be cheaper than Mankato MN. And we would replace BG conference game with a non conference which generally havent been close (providence, uconn)
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    Redsea said:

    Would the operational costs really be any better in his new league? Looks to me like we’d be flying everywhere except BG and Ferris State. Cutting what, one plane trip a year?

    I was also thinking flying to Denver might be cheaper than Mankato MN or Marquette MI. And we would replace BG non conference game with a non conference which generally havent been close (providence, uconn)
  • Miami_Oh_YeahMiami_Oh_Yeah Havighurstite
    leaving the NCHC and all its benefits for a startup league would be a Brad Bates-type terrible decision.  TV, Prestige, Recruiting, all lost in a blink of an eye.  No way Saylor and the Miami Prez that flippin' stupid.
  • Miami_Oh_YeahMiami_Oh_Yeah Havighurstite
    So many small thinkers at Miami.  Its like some version of Stockholm Syndrome or something. 
    RenmancoJiveHawkAORedHawk33skin66ChiefPanicthechuck_2112
  • MUHawk84MUHawk84 Wealthy Alum

    leaving the NCHC and all its benefits for a startup league would be a Brad Bates-type terrible decision.  TV, Prestige, Recruiting, all lost in a blink of an eye.  No way Saylor and the Miami Prez that flippin' stupid.

    How long you've been a Miami fan, bro?
  • Miami_Oh_YeahMiami_Oh_Yeah Havighurstite
    MUHawk84 said:

    leaving the NCHC and all its benefits for a startup league would be a Brad Bates-type terrible decision.  TV, Prestige, Recruiting, all lost in a blink of an eye.  No way Saylor and the Miami Prez that flippin' stupid.

    How long you've been a Miami fan, bro?
    are you just a fan?  or have you left some actual sweat equity out there?
    redhawk11JiveHawk
  • MooreHawkMooreHawk Off-Campus Slummer
    edited July 8
    Unless the budget cuts in Alaska are overridden, the two Alaska schools might drop all athletics this year. In that case it'll be interesting to see if the 7 keep going and essentially just remove UAH or if they decide getting rid of the Alaskan schools is enough and stay as a 8 team WCHA.
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