An interesting take CHN

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https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2020/02/19_Forget-the-Name,-New-CCHA.php

AORedHawk33

Lol

“ I've heard it from enough people over the last year or so — Miami wants to move. It can deny it publicly all it wants, but it's practically common knowledge at this point within college hockey's inner circles. Being in the NCHC is an expensive proposition for Miami, and even though its monumental on-ice success in the 2000s enabled the school to do a lot of big things, it still doesn't have the resources of the nearby Big Ten schools, for example. Miami wants to go, and is willing to pay the heft NCHC exit fee to do it.”

Thanks folks. Love and Honor.

agc

"I've heard it from enough people over the last year or so — Miami wants to move" This actually reads: "I've heard from nobody and I am making this up"

thechuck_2112

What the hell is the point of going to the CCHA if they aren't going to keep Minnesota State, the one program with some sustained success during the post-realignment era?

Seriously, if finances are so dire that we're considering paying a "hefty exit fee" to drop to a worse (but cheaper) league that will then get even worse because the best team wants to take our spot in the better league, why are we even bothering with Division I athletics? We can save oodles of money dropping to Division III.

19goSkins

Chuck, it’s just AORedhawk making little to no sense. Let him go back to watching Rutgers.

Bash_Riprock

thechuck_2112 said:

What the hell is the point of going to the CCHA if they aren't going to keep Minnesota State, the one program with some sustained success during the post-realignment era?

Seriously, if finances are so dire that we're considering paying a "hefty exit fee" to drop to a worse (but cheaper) league that will then get even worse because the best team wants to take our spot in the better league, why are we even bothering with Division I athletics? We can save oodles of money dropping to Division III.

or 15 percent or more by going with Geico.

Randy

19goSkins said:

Chuck, it’s just AORedhawk making little to no sense. Let him go back to watching Rutgers.

AO was quoting the posted article, which makes your post the one that doesn’t make sense. FWIW.

MUHawk84

The program seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place, stay and struggle to compete in a league that draws little interest from fans, or apparently, want to move to a league that would likely draw little interest from fans...

2xHawk

If we do choose to leave a league that has a 50% or better chance of making the NCAA tournament for a one bid league we should at least make sure it's a league with only 6 teams.

Bonk

A few thoughts...

1) If the writer is going to speak for Miami, he at least needs to have a perfunctory quote from the team.

2) OSU,scUM, et al, are not coming back, so any "name recognition" would be Lake St. and ^M. BUGS and Ferris are in contracts to play Miami anyway, and BUGS I know is indefinite. The other teams were always in the WCHA. Tell me those teams are going to bring in more students, who were barely in high school at the time Miami joined the NCHC.

3) Is the travel that much better? Bemidji (15 hours), NMU (11 hours), Tech (13 hours), Mankato (12 hours). The problem with travel since the league started is all the New England non-league games that Miami for whatever reason scheduled. Don't cry poor when you voluntarily schedule home-and-homes with Maine, UMass-Lowell, New Hampshire and Providence.

4) This is a MAJOR drop in competition, equivalent to dropping from the SEC in football to the ACC. Talking to Miami hockey players and coaches, I can tell you for an absolute fact that the league is a driving force for recruiting. Do you see Purdue dropping out of the Big 14 because it's had a bad run the past decade? 

5) It would cost to drop out of the NCHC. Even if it was free it's a bad idea for the reasons above. To have to pay makes it a completely asinine idea.

Bergeron will turn this program around. The worst thing to do at this time would be to drop of out the best college hockey conference in the world because of a bad half decade that had everything to do with bad recruiting and coaching and nothing to do with the league.

19goSkins

I believe Bonk just dropped the mic.

Maz

Solid points, but ... if the new conference is like the ACC, sign me up.

Maz

DevilGrad said:

The good news is that it's like the ACC.  The bad news is that we're Wake.  

So, would you want to be Wake in the SEC?

Miami_Oh_Yeah

thechuck_2112 said:

What the hell is the point of going to the CCHA if they aren't going to keep Minnesota State, the one program with some sustained success during the post-realignment era?

Seriously, if finances are so dire that we're considering paying a "hefty exit fee" to drop to a worse (but cheaper) league that will then get even worse because the best team wants to take our spot in the better league, why are we even bothering with Division I athletics? We can save oodles of money dropping to Division III.

So True. Minnesota State leaves And WMU stays put.  And Lake Superior / Ferris on shaky funding...  Would be worse decision ever. 

Miami_Oh_Yeah

Bonk said:

A few thoughts...

1) If the writer is going to speak for Miami, he at least needs to have a perfunctory quote from the team.

2) OSU,scUM, et al, are not coming back, so any "name recognition" would be Lake St. and ^M. BUGS and Ferris are in contracts to play Miami anyway, and BUGS I know is indefinite. The other teams were always in the WCHA. Tell me those teams are going to bring in more students, who were barely in high school at the time Miami joined the NCHC.

3) Is the travel that much better? Bemidji (15 hours), NMU (11 hours), Tech (13 hours), Mankato (12 hours). The problem with travel since the league started is all the New England non-league games that Miami for whatever reason scheduled. Don't cry poor when you voluntarily schedule home-and-homes with Maine, UMass-Lowell, New Hampshire and Providence.

4) This is a MAJOR drop in competition, equivalent to dropping from the SEC in football to the ACC.

2 great points right there except it would be equivalent to dropping from the SEC in football to the MAC

Iam4hawks

If it's a football analogy you want it would be more like Northwestern dropping out of the Big10 to play in the AAC. What will be interesting is a look to the east and where Holy Cross and Robert Morris land. I've never liked the NCHC and neither us nor WMU have any business being part of it.  Perfect world we would be in the Big10 for hockey. That would all but guarantee sold out seasons at Goggin. It would also mean as student you could get a car and see road games. Second choice would be a new conference with these four teams at its heart: Miami, BG, WMU and ND.  As for #3 Michigan, Notre Dame and Michigan State have let it be known they never plan to visit Oxford again as non conference opponents so who are we going to schedule?

Bonk

I wrote about this today. I can't emphasize enough how bad it would be for this program to leave the NCHC.

https://viewfromtheglass.com/2020/02/21/miami-needs-to-stay-in-the-nchc/

Maz

DevilGrad said:

Maz said:

DevilGrad said:

The good news is that it's like the ACC.  The bad news is that we're Wake.  

So, would you want to be Wake in the SEC?

I gather you aren't familiar with the EDSBS (now Underdog Dynasty) commentariat theory that there is really only one Consolidated VanderWake.  

I’ve been off my Internet game for years now.

DICK

Bonk, a nicely written piece.  The decision to fight to stay in the NCHC was made when we bought out Rico and lured Berge away from BG.  To me the question is can he  get it done in the NCHC.  Just because you and some other big hockey fans say that they are "confident" that he will get it done is, I guess, a nice piece of support and loyalty, but I would respect what you guys are saying if you just said you think he is our best hope and if it can be done, Berge is the guy to get it done.  3 or 4 years ago you were all saying the same thing about Rico and getting it turned around.  Think about that.

 I hope you are right this time.  It is harder now than it was  3 or 4 years ago because the top of the NCHC has separated themselves from the rest of college hockey, and because we have been losers long enough that it is no longer just bouncing back from a couple of down years.  Our new level seems to be in the 40's in pairwise.  Long way back to the top ten.

Bergeron deserves our support, maybe he will get a very tough job done.  Hope so.  If not, then the time may come when we should look for another way to get it done.

I remember a time not that long ago that there was another similar topic in which some of the same posters were taking similar positions against my opinion, and the results would seem to indicate that I had it right and the hard line hockey fans had it wrong.  That topic was Miami hockey recruiting, which changed after we hit the big time with 2 straight Frozen Fours.  We started recruiting higher rated players than we used to get. The hockey fan hardliners would say things like " we would be crazy not to take the highest ranked players we could sign".  Previously we had recruited the way every great Miami team had always done, whether it was basketball, football, or hockey.  We recruited hungry guys who worked very hard and stayed 4 years and graduated.  Guys like Travice Prentice or Ron Harper or  Brian Savage or Ryan Jones or Sherman Smith or Wally Sz or we could go on and on naming these guys.  None of them were guys we were beating out a bunch of bigtime schools to get.  The only one who ever left early was Big Ben and he redshirted as a freshman so he did put in 4 years.  They were hungry and had something to prove, they worked their butts off for 4 years and proved it.  

So what happened was we got some big time hockey guys but some of them left before ever entering school. some left  after just one season, some others after 3 years.  It really did not work out for us.  I think I am 4 Hawks has posted several times about his Dad saying that Miami was "forgetting who we are  and screwing things up".  That change in the way Miami hockey recruited is a prime example of that.

I well remember our "Why Western?" guy making fun of Western Michigan joining the NCHC and I explained over and over that Western had a bunch of things going for them and they might end up being better than us.  Hard line hockey guys didn't get it that time either.  Kalamazoo is a much bigger city than Oxford, Western had a bigger enrollment, Western Michigan is right in the middle of a big hockey fan area. We are not.  Kalamazoo is the home of some big companies and they actually have money to spend. Oxford is not and does not.  Well, WM hockey has not jumped into the top of big time, but they have clearly elevated their program while ours has collapsed.  So that is "Why Western".

DICK

I am bothered by the way people who do not like the message that AoRedHawk19 delivered are questioning the truth of what he said.  There is certainly no history of him making anything up.  He is a very reliable poster.

If you followed the football threads this year, you know that he bid on and won a trip with the football team.  So he spent a Friday and a Saturday with the team and coaches and several athletic department members the weekend we played at Kent.  So Yes, he did spend a few hours with some athletic department members this fall.  

Then another poster posts an article in college hockey news which verified what Ao had said and you basically call them both liars.  Come on.   It is perfectly fine for you to say that you think they are wrong and list the reasons why you disagree with what they are saying.  That is fair and reasonable.  You are wrong to trash the truth that they reported just because you don't like the message.

19goSkins

Great post, DICK. So accurate on so many levels. We all did feel Rico would turn things right back around...he had taken us to the doorstep, after all. Well, we now know his ego got in the way and he fell asleep at the wheel.

Is Berge guaranteed success? Not at all. His fingerprints were all over our great teams as an assistant. And he built up BG from the brink of extinction. But both of those conquests were accomplished at the lower level and not the NCHC. The “old” CCHA was good, but the BG rebuild was done in a very weak, generally one bid league. But, his track record speaks for itself and I think he is super hungry (as is Barry Schutte). The road is tougher, but nobody else I’d rather have leading the fight for us.

But...only time will tell. We aren’t jumping now. Hopefully we will be on top again. We shall see.

Cincykid3

Well said, Dick. I hope our new Coach can turn it around as well. And, as for potential recruits, for the most part I would think that they would want to commit to a winning program. If we can be relevant again in the NCHC, great, but if not I suspect the top recruits will look elsewhere.

Bonk

DICK, to be fair, I think I gave Miami a pass for 2013-14 but stopped being a rah-rah guy after that because it became evident the quantity of quality recruits slowed to a drip. 

The alarms really started going off for me in fall of 2015 when it Miami needed its incoming class -- and the previous year's classes for that matter -- to step up and largely those players did not.

I don't think most realized at the time what an amazing job Blash and Berg were doing in terms of recruiting (some on MHT did, and I give them a ton of credit), and after all of their players graduated and blue chippers were a rarity, it became evident they were the driving force behind the team.

A lot of people still don't see that the Blash and Berg players graduating and Miami's move to the NCHC happened about the same time. That's why the RedHawks have struggled in recent years, and they would be struggling in any conference.

What Berg did without as good of a school/town/facilities/and yes, league at BG was nothing short of amazing. He literally saved hockey there, and his current assistant played a major role in that renaissance. Rud has excellent contacts in the pro world. 

That's why I trust that Berg will turn the program around. 

Bonk

One more thought on the CCHA thing: If people are arguing about the money-saving aspect of travel, I at least understand that. Don't agree with it, but I understand. 

If you're arguing that playing in a much lower league that is likely to get one bid instead of playing against the best is a good thing for this program, I don't get that. Like Chuck said, why bother being D-1 if you're afraid to compete against top teams?

Miami's strength of schedule would suck elephant balls in the CCHA and that would make recruiting even harder. Selling kids on playing UMD, UND and Denver with games on national TV is a lot easier than telling them Lake State, Northern Michigan and Bowling Green are on the schedule.

AORedHawk33

Thanks DICK, and great post Bonk.

From what I am reading in your blog post, I’m inferring that it Bergeron himself doesn’t want/never wanted Miami to be in the NCHC in the first place. It sounds like he was pretty public about his disdain with Miami joining the new league. Why do you and others believe that mindset has changed?

Bonk

Hey AO, all I know is he has not been happy about the NCHC schedule this season. Maybe he was just blowing off steam and will hopefully realize or has already that post-2013 this is the best option for Miami, considering the alternative? That's what I'm hoping.

You raise a point I hadn't previously thought about. It is interesting that he wanted his BUGS team to get in then and now wants Miami out.

Redsea

Wait what. Our current head coach wants out of the NCHC?

19goSkins

Miami, mainly Rico, was very involved in keeping BG out of the NCHC. BG knew the WCHA was a weak league (just like the new CCHA will be) and Berge wanted to get in the NCHC. Rico got BG blackballed and Berge wasn’t happy. Berge knows we are where we need to be.

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I understand the league pull. I think the NCHC is the premier league in college hockey. Is it sustainable? Without a geographical re-alignment it sounds like there could be several D1 hockey teams facing trouble hence the WCHA being dissolved.