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Women's World Cup

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  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    This game was the equivalent of the New England Patriots playing the Miami RedHawks before the match even began.  At some point you'd think that the celebrations would be more subdued, even possibly right from the get-go.  Yes, this is THE WORLD CUP(!!!) but it's also the group stages in a tournament that the US is favored to win.

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
  • TruckCrewTruckCrew Wealthy Alum

    This game was the equivalent of the New England Patriots playing the Miami RedHawks before the match even began.  At some point you'd think that the celebrations would be more subdued, even possibly right from the get-go.  Yes, this is THE WORLD CUP(!!!) but it's also the group stages in a tournament that the US is favored to win.

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
    Because men handle it better, or more appropriately, somehow? I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but let's not act like the way we (men) would go about being on the wrong side of a rout is the right way. 
    Bash_Riprockskin66
  • DevilGradDevilGrad Wealthy Alum

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
    "I don't know anything about Angola, but I know they're in trouble."


    I picked my analogy for a reason.  
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    TruckCrew said:

    This game was the equivalent of the New England Patriots playing the Miami RedHawks before the match even began.  At some point you'd think that the celebrations would be more subdued, even possibly right from the get-go.  Yes, this is THE WORLD CUP(!!!) but it's also the group stages in a tournament that the US is favored to win.

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
    Because men handle it better, or more appropriately, somehow? I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but let's not act like the way we (men) would go about being on the wrong side of a rout is the right way. 
    Just stating that if these egregious celebrations had happened on the mens side of things, there more than likely would have been retaliation.  Not saying that it would be right or wrong from either side.
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    isnt AO’s concern the celebrations not the score?
    AORedHawk33
  • Spanks004Spanks004 Wealthy Alum

    TruckCrew said:

    This game was the equivalent of the New England Patriots playing the Miami RedHawks before the match even began.  At some point you'd think that the celebrations would be more subdued, even possibly right from the get-go.  Yes, this is THE WORLD CUP(!!!) but it's also the group stages in a tournament that the US is favored to win.

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
    Because men handle it better, or more appropriately, somehow? I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but let's not act like the way we (men) would go about being on the wrong side of a rout is the right way. 
    Just stating that if these egregious celebrations had happened on the mens side of things, there more than likely would have been retaliation.  Not saying that it would be right or wrong from either side.
    Do you watch soccer? EPL? Some of the celebrations are RIDICULOUS...men celebrate and so do the women.
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    edited June 13
    Spanks004 said:

    TruckCrew said:

    This game was the equivalent of the New England Patriots playing the Miami RedHawks before the match even began.  At some point you'd think that the celebrations would be more subdued, even possibly right from the get-go.  Yes, this is THE WORLD CUP(!!!) but it's also the group stages in a tournament that the US is favored to win.

    Can you imagine if a mens team celebrated like this in a world cup game?  There would've been an ensuing brawl or a few studs up tackles to follow.
    Because men handle it better, or more appropriately, somehow? I say that somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but let's not act like the way we (men) would go about being on the wrong side of a rout is the right way. 
    Just stating that if these egregious celebrations had happened on the mens side of things, there more than likely would have been retaliation.  Not saying that it would be right or wrong from either side.
    Do you watch soccer? EPL? Some of the celebrations are RIDICULOUS...men celebrate and so do the women.
    Cmon spanks... I’ve watched a ton of soccer but never seen a team celebrate like that at 9-0

    And for your viewing pleasure, I give you Germany-Brazil, World Cup semis. See if you can find any touchline celebrations here after 3-0.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P64HvwGkIl4

  • muohiobkmuohiobk Off-Campus Slummer
    edited June 13
    Redsea said:

    isnt AO’s concern the celebrations not the score?

    Exactly score line not argument here. There is 0% chance that an epl team would celebrate like that up 9-0 absolutely 0! If they did they would get stud up tackles coming at them .

    If that happened to me while playing I know I would have taken exception to that and acted accordingly.Most coaches at that level would feel same imo. AO is hardly alone in this thought as can be seen below

    https://www.facebook.com/81286652945/posts/10156769129562946?s=7714771&v=e&sfns=xmo
  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    =>All a much ado about nothing.

    1. No issue with running up the score. It is the WC, not U8 rec soccer. Plus margin of victory matters.

    2. The celebrations were excessive. I have no issue with a celebration for each goal, but it was over the top those final minutes given the scoreline. If I were Jill Ellis I would have said something quietly to the team to temper it a bit. That said, I did not see the celebrations as intentionally disrespectful. Nobody got in a Thai face and said, "You suck" or the equivalent. They were celebrating each other more than dancing on the graves of the Thai folk.
    MowchQuinoaburgerAORedHawk33skin66killgas20
  • DevilGradDevilGrad Wealthy Alum
    I didn't get to watch the match, but your comment reminded me of something we taught when I was helping coach rec soccer.  My co-coach is English and a stickler for "fair play."  He taught our kids very early on that it was not polite to celebrate any goal we scored as a result of clear goalie error.  Our kids basically knew when they'd gotten a cheapie and just ran back to the center circle while maybe pointing at the assist passer.  I realize the Thai team is professional (at least sort of), but I do hope nobody went wild over a clear howler past a 5'3" keeper trying to contain the best team in the world.  
  • MazMaz Senior Barfly
    I can't believe people are still talking about this. Personally, I think it is an inane to get worked up either way on this.  If pressed, I can see both sides ... and, thus, find myself kinda in the middle thinking that a little cheer and a fist pump and such is fine, but the airplane stuff and the team dancing is a bit much.  Still, at worst, I think its a tempest in a teapot.

    Having said that, it made me think about being a parent watching my kids play sports.  Nobody should feel like they can't root for your kid, but everyone should be mindful of the fact that on the other side of their cheering is another kid who might be emotionally hurt by it. So, you temper the rooting just a bit and make sure to keep things positive. And, you applaud politely the other teams and the opposing players when they do good things.  I have no problem with any of this.  It is as it should be, I think.  But, I am forced to wonder if the issue with the US team is really just applying the same standard to the USWNT.  And if it is, I think it is terrible.  We act the way we do when watching kids sports - in large part, but not exclusively - because they are kids.  I feel like, as a culture, we wouldn't normally give much thought to the emotional well-being of adults in a similar situation.  So, applying that standard to the USWNT is infantilizing and insulting to them.  Of course, it is certainly possible to look at an event involving adults and say that the excessive celebrator is being a jackass ... and if that's all that is motivating the critics, fine.  I'll buy that.  But, the bigger a deal people want to make out of it, the more I wonder if there's not a deeper reasoning (conscious or not) involved.
    mollauttBash_Riprockskin66
  • DevilGradDevilGrad Wealthy Alum
    It's almost inarguable that our gender stereotypes lead us to expect women to be more polite and talk less trash than men when playing sports.  But folks who expect that from world-class athletes have never seen Diana Taurasi play basketball (or Michele Akers play soccer to go back a generation).  
    TruckCrewSpanks004moose
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    edited June 14
    Good points being made... I more or less enjoy a healthy sports debate on MHT over doldrums of reality or the vitriol spewed in any other social media site, which is why I’ve continued the argument.

    I disagree wholeheartedly DG. I don’t think this is a gender issue. I think the team was acting like a bunch I think we’d be having the same debate if it was USMNT (although I think retaliation from the opposing team would’ve occurred after Rapinoes celebration). I coach HS athletics, boys and girls. I wouldn’t have tolerated that behavior for either.

    In my opinion, there is a sporting code, an unwritten rule for lack of a better term, on how to celebrate when the game is at hand and been decided. Most of us are former HS and college athletes, and have experienced similar situations, and I’m quite certain we (or our opponents) acted differently.
    DICK
  • JohnnyMacJohnnyMac Wealthy Alum
    The test will be their goal celebrations the next game.  If they celebrate the same way in the same situations, I guess they really believe all of that garbage is acceptable.

    But, I'm guessing they will show a lot more restraint, which will indicate to me that they realize they were out of line.


    Spanks004
  • QuinoaburgerQuinoaburger Wealthy Alum
    Does anyone know what the spread is for the next game? Chile is even lower in the world rankings than Thailand.
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
    JohnnyMac said:

    But, I'm guessing they will show a lot more restraint, which will indicate to me that they realize they were out of line.


    It could just as easily show that the coach told them the complaints aren’t worth it regardless of who’s right.

  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum

    Does anyone know what the spread is for the next game? Chile is even lower in the world rankings than Thailand.

    =>Like baseball, there are no point spreads in soccer.

    If there were, it would be like USWNT -4

  • JohnnyMacJohnnyMac Wealthy Alum

    JohnnyMac said:

    But, I'm guessing they will show a lot more restraint, which will indicate to me that they realize they were out of line.


    It could just as easily show that the coach told them the complaints aren’t worth it regardless of who’s right.

    Maybe that’s kind of the point in the first place. Almost like an “unwritten rule,” you could say.

  • Spanks004Spanks004 Wealthy Alum
    JohnnyMac said:

    The test will be their goal celebrations the next game.  If they celebrate the same way in the same situations, I guess they really believe all of that garbage is acceptable.

    But, I'm guessing they will show a lot more restraint, which will indicate to me that they realize they were out of line.


    Or they celebrate every goal knowing they just scored a goal in their sport’s top championship event and celebrate the fuck out of them!
    grumpy1dave67
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    I coached both males and females and in girls sports celebrating with your teammates is very acceptable and  in general is not viewed as demeaning the other team.  Watch any college or high school volleyball game.  HOWEVER, this situation was a bad look for the US for all the reasons given in various posts in this thread.  Plus this one.  Our country right now is bullying a bunch of smaller countries, including Venezuela, Cuba, Mexico, Iran, the countries of Central America, and trying to bully China and North Korea.  It is not good for us to also appear to be bullying smaller and poorer countries in an event which captures worldwide attention.  The term " ugly American" was in common use around the world when I was growing up, I would hate to go back to that.
    DSnyder15Bash_Riprock
  • MazMaz Senior Barfly
    DevilGrad said:

    It's almost inarguable that our gender stereotypes lead us to expect women to be more polite and talk less trash than men when playing sports.  But folks who expect that from world-class athletes have never seen Diana Taurasi play basketball (or Michele Akers play soccer to go back a generation).  

    True story: One of my childhood friends was a great soccer player. She was an all-American at UVA in college. They came out to Ohio to play a game at UC, so another of my childhood friends (who played FB at UC) went to watch the game. During the game, the ref gave Amanda a yellow card for something that Amanda thought was bullshit ... and she told him so. The ref stopped the game and called the head coach over for a talk. He suggested that she might want to take Amanda out of the game. Of course, the coach declined the offer. The point here is that people sometimes have different expectations of female athletes, whether they mean to or not. As for me ... I grew up with Amanda and a bunch of other great women athletes who went in to play sports in college (our HS won states in girls’ BB and soccer). These women have always commanded the same respect as their male counterparts and were never shy about putting someone in their place for treating them like the “fairer” sex. My expectations have been set accordingly. But, I suspect there are still people who have a more “traditional” view of women in sports.
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    Maz-

    The story you just told us has absolutely nothing to do with gender equality or expectations of how a male or female should perform. That is a sportsmanship issue.

    It sounds like Amanda talked back to the referee, and the ref was not happy about it. Doesn’t matter if it was a bullshit call or not, you don’t talk back to a ref. I take my male and female players out immediately if they talk back to a ref, and they’ll sit if they get a technical foul.
    DICK
  • skin66skin66 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    I coached both males and females and in girls sports celebrating with your teammates is very acceptable and  in general is not viewed as demeaning the other team.  Watch any college or high school volleyball game.  HOWEVER, this situation was a bad look for the US for all the reasons given in various posts in this thread.  Plus this one.  Our country right now is bullying a bunch of smaller countries, including Venezuela, Cuba, Mexico, Iran, the countries of Central America, and trying to bully China and North Korea.  It is not good for us to also appear to be bullying smaller and poorer countries in an event which captures worldwide attention.  The term " ugly American" was in common use around the world when I was growing up, I would hate to go back to that.




    I agree with the first part. Volleyball players/teams celebrate almost every point no matter what the score or opponent. Softball teams mob the home run hitter no matter the score. Few people complain.

    The second part I am unconcerned about.
    DSnyder15
  • MazMaz Senior Barfly

    Maz-

    The story you just told us has absolutely nothing to do with gender equality or expectations of how a male or female should perform. That is a sportsmanship issue.

    It sounds like Amanda talked back to the referee, and the ref was not happy about it. Doesn’t matter if it was a bullshit call or not, you don’t talk back to a ref. I take my male and female players out immediately if they talk back to a ref, and they’ll sit if they get a technical foul.

    No. If she was a man, the ref either would have given her a red card or let it go. He would not have suggested to the coach that the player needed a little extra parenting.
    grumpy1AORedHawk33Spanks004DevilGrad
  • QuinoaburgerQuinoaburger Wealthy Alum
    mollautt said:

    Does anyone know what the spread is for the next game? Chile is even lower in the world rankings than Thailand.

    =>Like baseball, there are no point spreads in soccer.

    If there were, it would be like USWNT -4

    I just did some research and apparently there are books offering US -4.5 for this game with the same return either way.
    mollautt
  • dave67dave67 Wealthy Alum
    The British bet on anything and everything.
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