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Why Not Us?

I will preface this by saying I didn't want John Groce as our next head coach. But now we know he is off to Akron. A solid hire by them. But I have also heard Groce pulled his name from consideration for the Miami job. If that is true, then as an AD, I would want to know and address why Miami is a less attractive job than Akron. Is it the money offered? Facilities? Commitment to basketball? Fan base? Something else? To me, that is what DS needs to be asking and addressing. Because all other things being equal, Miami should never be a second choice to Akron.
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Comments

  • 19goSkins19goSkins Senior Barfly
    Ummm.....all of the above. Akron is a MUCH better job than Miami right now. I'd add Firestone membership vs Oxford Country Club to the list. Plus better athletes.
    redhawk11
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    In no particular order: Recent success, money, support (from fans and administration). If I were a coach looking for a job, even as a Miami grad, I'd choose Akron.
  • Love_and_HonorLove_and_Honor Wealthy Alum
    Akron only needs a year or so to reload and they have the resources / fan base to get back to where they usually are. Miami needs at least three or four years to completely rebuild a roster and program that has to compete with hockey for a limited chunk of fans in a small college town.
  • muohiobkmuohiobk Off-Campus Slummer
    At this point I almost feel like it isn't out of line to ask "why would you want to come to us?" but maybe that is just an internal question I have asked myself in these dark days haha. I love Miami, but Akron is the better job in general at this time as was pointed out. 
  • DSnyder15DSnyder15 Wealthy Alum
    edited April 2017
    " Because all other things being equal"

    Seriously....when is that EVER true??  Schools will always have things they can sell.  City vs rural. Education vs engineering programs, weather (that would not be an issue here), size of school, diversity, close to school or to close to home and on an on.  Akron does not do well with St. V in Akron even though LeBron supports the Zips and is an Alumni at St. V because kids don't want to stay at home.  Some kids want to go where they can be "the man" and dominate....that never happens at Akron (and hopefully will be the same and here too). 

    Groce wants to win now and move up within 2-3 years ..or sooner.  He has a better chance of doing that at Akron.  It really is that simple.  Whether he can do it....I have serious doubts.  I was NOT an advocate of him for either school.  I will say that his exit interview after he was fired from Illinois was impressive.  I really don't like that he often badmouths Dambrot and other coaches in private.  This is the MAC and life as a Mid-Major...we will always be taking risks with coaches.

    If Miami upgrades their facilities they will be the better choice for many kids.  But I doubt that Miami will ever be the better choice for kids from the Houston area and that is where Akron has been getting many of it's recent recruits.  And if they were getting kids from Houston and Australia....I am sure the AD would be flooded with email and tweets about improving local recruiting by some fans.

    Akron and Miami will always appeal to 2 different types of kids.  We should make Miami the best we can be rather than trying to be better than Xxxxx. 
  • OgdenOccupantOgdenOccupant Summer Orientee
    Ok, I am a newbie to Miami Hawk Talk.  Have seen in a variety of posts under different topics about Miami needing to upgrade its facilities and currently this is such a negative to our recruiting.  So, I'm asking....what exactly do we need specifically in everyone's minds to impress the 18 yr olds that visit Oxford?  As a former athlete and coach of other former Miamians, I'm taken back by all the comments about our facilities.
    Quinoaburger
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    Maybe Groce got the feeling that he wasnt going to get the job and pulled out

    I agree that akron and Miami attract different kids and are different jobs

    I do NOT agree that Akron has better facilities, money or fans. The JAR is not a great facility. They won 20 games a year for 10 straight years in a city of 200,000 people and the game i went to had about 3,500 at it. I am pretty sure Chuck Martin is making more than Terry Bowden.

    Our rebuild might take longer because of where the programs are now
    DSnyder15DICK
  • El13El13 Wealthy Alum

    Ok, I am a newbie to Miami Hawk Talk.  Have seen in a variety of posts under different topics about Miami needing to upgrade its facilities and currently this is such a negative to our recruiting.  So, I'm asking....what exactly do we need specifically in everyone's minds to impress the 18 yr olds that visit Oxford?  As a former athlete and coach of other former Miamians, I'm taken back by all the comments about our facilities.


    Don't fall into the bad facilities debate, we are fine. Our arena is old and built as a multipurpose facility in an era when they had that strategy, it is actually a very well hilt nice facility. It is not ideal for basketball, but it works. If we had the money we would redo the seating closer to the court and improve the locker rooms. I have no idea what that would cost, probably more than any of us would guess.

    This is not our problem, even though if you read these threads that is the opinion of most. We have won there and we can win there again, we should make the most of what we got. BTW it is better that Akron's court.
    AORedHawk33redhawk11DICK2xHawk
  • Professor_FateProfessor_Fate Wealthy Alum
    Akron has LeBron James's support and backing. Miami does not.
  • HighStreetBluesHighStreetBlues Senior Barfly
    El13 said:

    Ok, I am a newbie to Miami Hawk Talk.  Have seen in a variety of posts under different topics about Miami needing to upgrade its facilities and currently this is such a negative to our recruiting.  So, I'm asking....what exactly do we need specifically in everyone's minds to impress the 18 yr olds that visit Oxford?  As a former athlete and coach of other former Miamians, I'm taken back by all the comments about our facilities.


    Don't fall into the bad facilities debate, we are fine. Our arena is old and built as a multipurpose facility in an era when they had that strategy, it is actually a very well hilt nice facility. It is not ideal for basketball, but it works. If we had the money we would redo the seating closer to the court and improve the locker rooms. I have no idea what that would cost, probably more than any of us would guess.

    This is not our problem, even though if you read these threads that is the opinion of most. We have won there and we can win there again, we should make the most of what we got. BTW it is better that Akron's court.
    It all comes down to money. Football facilities have become the class of the conference. Compare that to basketball. You can say it isn't killing us, but we have a high school caliber locker room and just had an NBA caliber guard leave because his draft reports say he's too thin and we couldn't offer him a strength and conditioning coach.

    Some stuff like game day atmosphere can be fixed with effort and outreach, but we need to spend and show an actual dedication to the sport if we want to get talent back on the floor.
    AORedHawk33DICK
  • Spanks004Spanks004 Wealthy Alum
    Why us, I would say...there is not one reason one would choose Miami over Akron at this point. Miami is the LEAST desirable job in the MAC right now. Sure we like to throw around our history, and our academics, but right now that doesn't matter, that isn't winning basketball games. Coaches want to win, and every other school in the MAC is winning more than us.
    AORedHawk33muohiobkEDDIERe6H5wkDSnyder15DICKkillgas20
  • LibertyJayLibertyJay Summer Orientee

    Akron has LeBron James's support and backing. Miami does not.

    That may not be the case anymore. LeBron said that he would support Coach Dambrot and his new school. Don't know if he will still support Akron at the level that he has in the past. Remains to be seen.
  • BluesmanBluesman Wealthy Alum
    Ok, my point is that we, Miami/DS, needs to figure out where we are lagging, why we are behind Akron, and I agree we are, and implement measures to fix it. That was the point of this thread.
  • dave67dave67 Wealthy Alum
    Akron serves beer.
  • DevilGradDevilGrad Wealthy Alum
    That's why they couldn't hire Larry Eustachy.
    Bash_Riprockdave67killgas20
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    Spanks004 said:

    Why us, I would say...there is not one reason one would choose Miami over Akron at this point. Miami is the LEAST desirable job in the MAC right now. Sure we like to throw around our history, and our academics, but right now that doesn't matter, that isn't winning basketball games. Coaches want to win, and every other school in the MAC is winning more than us.

    I totally disagree with this.  Miami is the most Southern school in the league (better weather).  Miami has arguably the best campus (may not appeal to all players, but certainly to some).  Miami is arguably the best academic school in the league (may not appeal to all players, but certainly to some).  Are you telling me long-term that you think Central or Eastern Michigan has a better chance to be successful than Miami in the long run?  No way.

    The problem with Miami basketball is we just lived through the worst 5 years of coaching we will ever have - was Toledo a bad job when Gene Cross was the coach- no they just had a bad coach- was Ball State the worst job when they had Ronnie Thompson.  Was Miami football a bad job when Don Treadwell was the coach?.   

    Right now I would say it is a middle of the league job and when the amenities are improved it will be a top 3/4 job in the league (just like football).
    redbear18Quinoaburger
  • digitalhawkdigitalhawk Senior Barfly
    "The problem with Miami basketball is we just lived through the worst 5
    years of coaching we will ever have - was Toledo a bad job when Gene
    Cross was the coach- no they just had a bad coach- was Ball State the
    worst job when they had Ronnie Thompson.  Was Miami football a bad job
    when Don Treadwell was the coach?."

    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!
    CMHskinsdave67Bash_Riprockredbear18killgas20
  • EDDIEEDDIE Wealthy Alum
    Hell no.
    Bash_Riprockkillgas20
  • AORedHawk33AORedHawk33 Wealthy Alum
    When DS hired Chuck Martin, Chuck commented on how several MAC coaches reached out to him and said that Miami was the best job in the conference, hands down.  How many people are saying that about Miami basketball?  How many people think that Miami is in the top half at this point?

    We are on the verge of losing one of our best freshman in the last decade to Northern Kentucky University.  Are you kidding me???

    This is a terrible job and a terrible program due to years upon years of neglect.  No two ways about it.   
  • muohiobkmuohiobk Off-Campus Slummer
    Spanks004 said:


    When DS hired Chuck Martin, Chuck commented on how several MAC coaches reached out to him and said that Miami was the best job in the conference, hands down.  How many people are saying that about Miami basketball?  How many people think that Miami is in the top half at this point?


    We are on the verge of losing one of our best freshman in the last decade to Northern Kentucky University.  Are you kidding me???

    This is a terrible job and a terrible program due to years upon years of neglect.  No two ways about it.   
    100% agree.Right now it is not a good job, does not mean it can't be down the road but there is a reason people may have turned us down(if true).
  • hoosierhawkhoosierhawk Senior Barfly
    edited April 2017
    While it may or may not be the case for Groce (I have no idea), someone "withdrawing" from a hiring process doesn't always or even usually mean they are turning the job down.  It can be a graceful way to exit when they know they aren't getting the job or they may in fact not be interested, but the school might not have been interested in them either.  I'm not sure anyone besides those involved in the process know which way it was in this case.

    I know not everyone on the board feels this way, but I am much happier with Owens than I would be with Groce.  I'm sure when the salaries come out Groce probably made out better, but to me, the respective hires tell me that maybe Akron wasn't so much more appealing than Miami.  We got a guy who has been busy winning for the last 5 years and Akron got a guy who has done nothing but lose during that time.  Miami landed a rising talent and Akron is trying to catch a falling knife.
    redhawk11D_DayThe_SackmanDICK90skinredbear18Quinoaburgerkillgas20
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum

    "The problem with Miami basketball is we just lived through the worst 5
    years of coaching we will ever have - was Toledo a bad job when Gene
    Cross was the coach- no they just had a bad coach- was Ball State the
    worst job when they had Ronnie Thompson.  Was Miami football a bad job
    when Don Treadwell was the coach?."

    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

    You might want to check your history recollections. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
    JiveHawkthechuck_2112DICK2xHawkRe6H5wkBash_RiprockLove_and_HonorKoheenColonel_Panicredhawk11and 3 others.
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
    Forget it, he's rolling.
    Bash_RiprockAORedHawk33EDDIEColonel_PanicD_DayMU_Merger_91ChiefPanicHawkOfTheWalkkillgas20
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum

    What may well define our chances going forward is the degree of commitment on the part of the University. Sayler can only do so much with the resources he has.

    It falls to the President and Board of Trustees to realize the depth of our problems. Sayler has done some great things going "all in" for FB and finding the money to correct some serious facility flaws. We did  NOT  have the funding or staff to do both FB and BB at the same time and I wonder if, even now with a full court press on the subject whether we will find or raise enough money to deal with the facility issue in a manner that equates to the fix in FB.

    We also have a serious "fan issue: and winning alone will not solve that problem. Miami has allowed its fan base to wither and diminish to the point where many former fans will never come back....but an effort and a plan must be developed to grow the fan base, most likely from new potential fans. A tough job for certain.

    One BB starts winning, the final piece will be to build sustainability in winning, something we have had trouble doing post both Harper and Wally.

  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    Renmanco said:

    "The problem with Miami basketball is we just lived through the worst 5
    years of coaching we will ever have - was Toledo a bad job when Gene
    Cross was the coach- no they just had a bad coach- was Ball State the
    worst job when they had Ronnie Thompson.  Was Miami football a bad job
    when Don Treadwell was the coach?."

    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

    You might want to check your history recollections. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
    You need to rent "Animal House".
    AORedHawk33EDDIEColonel_Panicredhawk11killgas20
  • DevilGradDevilGrad Wealthy Alum
    Bash_Riprock90skinkillgas20
  • BlackbirdBlackbird Off-Campus Slummer
    This board has permanently warped me. I went to my accountant today. His name is Steiner. What popped into my head was "Mein Fuhrer, Steiner . . . . ."
    redbear18killgas20
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum

    digitalhawk:

    My apologies for messing up the Animal House reference. I will drink non-carbonated sodas for the rest of the month in atonement....and I actually loved AH.......no harm intended.

    Re6H5wkkillgas20
  • digitalhawkdigitalhawk Senior Barfly
    Renmanco, DEAD!
    Bash_Riprockkillgas20
  • redbear18redbear18 Havighurstite
    Somebody hit the spam button on Renmanco's comment LOL!
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