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Tempered Enthusiasm

BluesmanBluesman Wealthy Alum
edited December 2018 in Football
Someone sent me a text last night asking what I thought of our recruiting class. NLI Signing Day is tomorrow. I said on paper it looks pretty good. Fills a lot of needs, adds depth, has what on paper seem to be some very nice players. This class is huge both in size and the impact it will have on the program for the next 3-4 years. But I also said my enthusiasm is tempered because we have had "highly rated" classes before under CM. And what have been the returns? Never more than 6 wins in a season over the last 5 years. On paper is one thing. But winning is what counts. I won't go through the stats again. We all know them. I'm tired of simply  "great recruiting". It's time to see great results on the field. My guess is others feel this way too. So while I will be happy for tomorrow for those signing, that excitement is being held in reserve until we start seeing results on the field where it ultimately counts. 
Bash_Riprock
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Comments

  • 19goSkins19goSkins Senior Barfly
    The Football Forum should be rebranded as “Tempered Enthusiasm”
    JCook32grumpy1mrgredhawkTruckCrew
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    Well said, Blues.
  • RedhawkfbdadRedhawkfbdad Summer Orientee
    edited December 2018
    This is a great looking class! Expectations for next season need to be tempered because this will be a very young team.
    Spanks004
  • EDDIEEDDIE Wealthy Alum
    Or rebranded as "Curb Your Enthusiasm."

    The class, however, seems to be pretty pretty pretty pretty good.image
  • dave67dave67 Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    Even the finest clay needs a talented potter to mold a winning vase.
  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    dave67 said:

    Even the finest clay needs a talented potter to mold a winning vase.

    So now Chuck is expected to make his own trophy?!?!

    thechuck_2112Idiotfanredbear18mpurdy22Bash_Riprock
  • EDDIE said:

    Or rebranded as "Curb Your Enthusiasm."

    The class, however, seems to be pretty pretty pretty pretty good.


    When Chuck Martin has a 22-39 record, has no winning seasons, has an abysmal record in rivalry games, makes numerous coaching mistakes, disparages the fans and university in a press conference without ever apologizing, and has a super low buyout that increases if we don't fire him this year, but he has a highly rated 31 player recruiting class coming in.

    https://media.gq.com/photos/5760501335211722331a65ff/master/w_560/larry-david-3.gif
    redhawk11muhoopsjunkiehawkattack06
  • BluesmanBluesman Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    We have had pretty good classes before. Like 2015. Highest rated in the MAC. This is simple. I want wins. I want to see us beating UC regularly, and OU, and every other damn team in the MAC. And I want to see some OOC wins against FBS opponents, like Marshall. And yeah, my expression right now looks like Larry David's above!!! 

    And "there is no crying in baseball!" RIP Penny Marshall!
    redhawk11
  • D_DayD_Day Senior Barfly
    dave67 said:

    Even the finest clay needs a talented potter to mold a winning vase.

    Does Clay Belton still have eligibility left?
    digitalhawk
  • HawksGrad18HawksGrad18 Summer Orientee
    Y'all want to take your best guess of the starters next year?  I'm sure you all are going to disagree but I am cautiously optimistic regarding next years team.  We finally get to see some fresh blood.  My feeling was that some of the older guys stuck in the starting rotation too long just because they were old guys.  Some of these young cats can play and I am excited to see how they perform.
    JiveHawkSpanks004
  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    Someone sent me a text last night asking what I thought of our recruiting class. NLI Signing Day is tomorrow. I said on paper it looks pretty good. Fills a lot of needs, adds depth, has what on paper seem to be some very nice players. This class is huge both in size and the impact it will have on the program for the next 3-4 years. But I also said my enthusiasm is tempered because we have had "highly rated" classes before under CM. And what have been the returns? Never more than 6 wins in a season over the last 5 years. On paper is one thing. But winning is what counts. I won't go through the stats again. We all know them. I'm tired of simply  "great recruiting". It's time to see great results on the field. My guess is others feel this way too. So while I will be happy for tomorrow for those signing, that excitement is being held in reserve until we start seeing results on the field where it ultimately counts. 
    =>Recruiting HAS NOT been "great" or "highly regarded" overall.  

    It is only good in comparison with the other Mickey MAC schools.  Overall, Miami has had WELL BELOW AVERAGE recruiting classes every year...as have all MAC schools.

    Here are the top recruiting classes in the MAC and where they ranked overall in FBS football:

    Scout.com ranking/Rivals.com ranking

    2013:  Toledo 76/69 
    2014:  WMU 71/59
    2015:  Miami 74/WMU 77 (Miami was 83 - #3 in MAC)
    2016:  WMU 67/64
    2017:  Toledo 78/79
    2018:  Toledo 66/70
    2019:  Miami 68/64

    If there have been 131 (or less) FBS schools, the median FBS recruiting class is ranked #66.  

    So, out of the 84 MAC recruiting classes (7 years X 12 teams - excluding UMass), never in last 7 years has a MAC school had a recruiting class ranked in the top half per Scouts and only 3 times (barely) per Rivals.

    So when someone complains the supposed "highly rated" Miami recruiting classes are only going 6 wins overall, remind them that those classes have generally succeeded in beating the MAC teams they out recruited (16-8 vs. the MAC the last 3 years), BUT have been beaten consistently by OOC teams that have consistently badly out recruited Miami EVERY year per Scout and Rivals (ex. Notre Dame, Miss St., Iowa, Minnesota, UC, Marshall).  Only EKU stands out as an obvious gross exception.

    IN SUMMARY & IN CONCLUSION:  The 16-8 MAC/1-12 OOC record the last 3 years since the rebuild is UNDENIABLE PROOF that if Miami continues to land good classes by MAC standards, Miami will continue to be one of the best teams in the MAC East but lose OOC games to teams with superior talent due to better recruiting classes.  

    To consistently break this cycle, Miami must either schedule easier OOC games (why isn't the Dayton Flyers on the damn schedule?) AND/OR start having recruiting classes the likes of which MAC has never seen (not going to happen).

    (And yes, I learned from Occupy Democrats that if you CAPITALIZE AND HIGHLIGHT certain words that makes it true).
    MooreHawkelpalitoJCook32MHT_Meme_TeamMUHawk84Love_and_Honor
  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    D_Day said:

    dave67 said:

    Even the finest clay needs a talented potter to mold a winning vase.

    Does Clay Belton still have eligibility left?
    Donovan Potter wasn't talented enough to help him.

  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    Moll,

    I dont see Ohio in your list above..so..or

    #3 actually get good coaching....Ohio has won some decent OOC, not great...but decent...and not lost to FCS. ...heck Akron beat ;NW, as well..

    So it's not as simple as ranking of classes, especially ones that are within 10 points or so...given the pundits are wrong sometimes or guys don't pan out.

    So if in 2015 we were top or close MAC class...how many solid OOC wins did MAC brethern have up to 2018, that we did not (ie on Marshall, UC level or better)?

    You list Miami in 2015, only time in top 3, until now?
  • The name of this thread sounds like the name of an 80’s British Band
    dave67
  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    skins said:

    Moll,

    I dont see Ohio in your list above..so..or

    #3 actually get good coaching....Ohio has won some decent OOC, not great...but decent...and not lost to FCS. ...heck Akron beat ;NW, as well..

    So it's not as simple as ranking of classes, especially ones that are within 10 points or so...given the pundits are wrong sometimes or guys don't pan out.

    So if in 2015 we were top or close MAC class...how many solid OOC wins did MAC brethern have up to 2018, that we did not (ie on Marshall, UC level or better)?

    You list Miami in 2015, only time in top 3, until now?

    =>Ohio not on any list as not have #1 class in any of the 7 years per Scout and Rivals.

  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    nor NIU...yet Ohio, NIU, WMU, Toledo, EMU, CMU (I think) and even Akron all have wins over P5 schools?


    NIU, WMU, UT with multiple....Miami has had the ~top three (based on Avg player ranking) or even 1st recruiting classes three out four years...and yet lost to EKU and can't beat a 4-8 OOC team (UC).

    I agree with your overall take, of course, we can't really expect wins over P5 with top 50 recruiting classes (although an occasional upset should happen..see Akron)....at the same time, CM's recruiting classes have led Miami to essentially beating the middle and bottom of the MAC consistently, with 2018 finally squeaking by NIU and OU in two games.
  • HawksGrad18HawksGrad18 Summer Orientee
    I'll give it a go.

    QB - Williamson/Malzone/Mayer (My guess is Williamson)
    RB - DJ with Bester mixed in
    X - Dom Robinson
    Slot - Jack Sorenson/Walker
    W - Mayock/Mitch Lewis
    TE - Becker/Homer
    LT - Skibinski/Clark
    RG - Nank/Maynard
    C - Godlevske
    RG - LaRubbio
    RT - Doyle

    DE - Kimpler/Sharp
    DT - Butler/Hampton
    DT - Costin
    DE - Lemon/Maize (assuming he can get healthy)
    Will - Reid/ Maybe Baratti
    Mike - McWood
    Nickel - Banks
    CB - Rucker-Furlow
    Boundary - Weatherford
    Field - Brown
    CB - Raymond/KoiKoi

    K- Sloman
    P - Kramer
    LS -Crabtree
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum
    I have something similar. Mayer at QB. Wynter at DT over Hampton. Butler stays outside over lemon. I think only Reid is going to be starting off the linebacker group listed, I'm just not sure who else is going to take it yet. I also think every DB spot has more competition (Manny, Boswell, Salopek, Burse).
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    What do you know about CM tells you this?

  • grumpy1grumpy1 Senior Barfly
    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    I don't see the point in starting Malzone.  He plays one season,  meaning the development of all the young QB's gets pushed back and we start 2019 without an experienced QB.
    DICK
  • digitalhawkdigitalhawk Senior Barfly
    grumpy1 said:

    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    I don't see the point in starting Malzone.  He plays one season,  meaning the development of all the young QB's gets pushed back and we start 2019 without an experienced QB.
    See: Andrew Hendrix
  • JCook32JCook32 Summer Orientee
    QB development isn't linear. Pushing a freshman/sophomore QB to start before he's ready can stunt his development and hold the development back from others on the offense. I do think the best player should win and if it's Malzone, hopefully it's because he has tapped into his potential coming out of high school.

    Look at what Ryan Day had to say about Dwayne Haskins:

    Ryan Day said accepting development is key for quarterbacks.

    He said Dwayne Haskins wanted to play last year, but said if you’d ask him, he'd tell you he wasn’t ready to play. "Ryan Day says "one of the best thing to happen to Dwayne Haskins" was him waiting to play until this year. He says Haskins would agree with him, and they have talked about it."

    agc
  • Love_and_HonorLove_and_Honor Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018

    grumpy1 said:

    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    I don't see the point in starting Malzone.  He plays one season,  meaning the development of all the young QB's gets pushed back and we start 2019 without an experienced QB.
    See: Andrew Hendrix
    The alternatives were Drew Kummer, Austin Gearing, or true freshman Gus Ragland. It was a good thing for 2014 since Hendrix was able to mostly carry an awful offense that wouldn't have been much better than 2013, but Malzone didn't look very good this season and we're not looking for a stop-gap in 2019 unless some elite talent like that Clemson transfer wanted to come here for some reason.
    redhawk11Quinoaburgergrumpy1DICK
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    redhawk11 said:

    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    What do you know about CM tells you this?

    On Malzone?...pure sarcasm, no inside knowledge. Just how CM has operated since being here, IMO.

    He brought a P5 guy in, ala Hendrix..likely he would give him a shot first.

    I agree Malzone looked as if he has more rust than a late model BMW....but CM is in his mind a P5 guy.
  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    skins said:

    redhawk11 said:

    skins said:

    The JUCO DT seems like an obvious choice to be on depth chart to me.


    I like Mayer as well. Knowing CM it will be Malzone, though.

    What do you know about CM tells you this?

    On Malzone?...pure sarcasm, no inside knowledge. Just how CM has operated since being here, IMO.

    He brought a P5 guy in, ala Hendrix..likely he would give him a shot first.

    I agree Malzone looked as if he has more rust than a late model BMW....but CM is in his mind a P5 guy.
    CM brought in Hendrix because the rest of the QBs were trash and there was no one to develop. His hands were tied.

    I don't think many people here have a clue who is going to start next year unless they attended practices or have inside knowledge from coaches. At Miami, there isn't enough media coverage for us to develop educated opinions. It's a complete crap shoot. I hope the coaches choose the right guy and he has the opportunity to be successful. The only way we would be able to develop opinions of these guys is if they all see game action at some point. Otherwise, we just have to trust the coaches.

  • grumpy1grumpy1 Senior Barfly
    Otherwise, we just have to trust the coaches.

    Because that's worked out well, so far.
  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    grumpy1 said:

    Otherwise, we just have to trust the coaches.

    Because that's worked out well, so far.
    What other choice do we have?

  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    edited December 2018
    grumpy1 said:

    Otherwise, we just have to trust the coaches.

    Because that's worked out well, so far.
    =>I was waiting for the first snark response from @redhawk11.  Almost too easy to put that up on a tee.  But in all fairness @grumpy1, do you or anyone else really disagree with the prior choices of using Hendrix or Ragland at QB?  Maybe argue that Ragland should have been in sooner instead of Bahl?
  • redhawk11redhawk11 Wealthy Alum
    mollautt said:

    grumpy1 said:

    Otherwise, we just have to trust the coaches.

    Because that's worked out well, so far.
    =>I was waiting for the first snark response from @redhawk11.  Almost too easy to put that up on a tee.  But in all fairness @grumpy1, do you or anyone else really disagree with the prior choices of using Hendrix or Ragland at QB?  Maybe argue that Ragland should have been in sooner instead of Bahl?
    Not snarky. I'm serious. Until we see players in game action, we don't have a choice with any Miami coach, no matter who it is. We don't have beat writers who report on practices. We only have recruiting rankings/film, practice highlights (highlights are only highlights, making them useless for talent evaluation), and game performance. We, as fans, usually see nothing else, aside from the occasional hawktalker attending a practice and giving us a report.

    JCook32
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