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The Law of Unintended Consequences and the end of the UC rivalry in football.

miamialummiamialum Summer Orientee
I fear that the law of unintended consequences is about to bite us.  Part of the UCONN to the Big East story that is just coming to light is that at the moment the AAC is talking about not adding a member and pitting their number one and number two teams in the conference championship game. That would require an elimination of divisions and, per NCAA rule, I think it would require them to play a true round robin like the Big XII.  I fear that this will be used an excuse for UC to not play us home and home in football any more.  I think much of my apathy that has developed toward Miami sports has to do with two things -- constant mediocrity and the fact that we no longer play UC, Xavier and Dayton in basketball.  Those were the games I looked forward to in the past.  I just fear that UCONN's move the the Big East will be the end of a storied rivalry in football.  I hope I am entirely wrong but I fear this is just another step on the road of apathy and irrelevancy. 

Comments

  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    The only thing to fear is Chuck Martin in a two minute drill.
    grumpy1agc
  • Swoop2005Swoop2005 Summer Orientee
    This maybe an unpopular opinion but the UC game is the cause of so much anguish within our fan base...I say good riddance. I understand the local rivalry aspect of both football and basketball games with local schools like X, UD and UC. But we aren’t competitive with these teams. There was a time we were but those times have long since gone. With the changing landscape of college athletics, it is doubtful that we could consistently beat these teams in basketball and UC in football. Stats and numbers don’t lie. I would hate to see a long time rivalry go by the boards but the “rivalry” itself has been gone for sometime now.
    Nickskin
  • rexjack53rexjack53 Wealthy Alum
    This game is no longer a rivalry since Miami never wins, even when up by 11 with 4 minutes left...................
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    I wonder if the AAC schools would want 10 conference games? Certainly that is not going to work for Navy. I cant imagine Houston wanting 10 conf games.
  • NickskinNickskin Wealthy Alum
    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    Professor_Fate
  • JCook32JCook32 Dodds God
    This is definitely not comparing apples to apples but just something to argue about - Miami has lost 14 of the past 15 to UC (including 13 straight). Four of the past five losses, outside of last year in the monsoon, were all within one score. No longer competitive.

    Michigan has lost 14 of the past 15 to Ohio State (included 8 straight). One of the past five losses was within one score. Are they no longer competitive with OSU in football?

    Again, there are so many other variables in play but thought that was just something interesting to look at. And for what it's worth, I think we're closer to UC than it seems others here think.

    QuinoaburgerNescacdaddave67DICKLove_and_HonorScalperBoarsHeadHero
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    I agree we are not competitive with Xavier and UC in basketball.  We haven't been competitive with Dayton in basketball.  Those rivalries are already gone.

    I do not agree with the football doom and gloom with UC.  UC is probably at a higher level - but in our massive losing streak they were in a BCS conference for many of those years.  Since they were relegated to the AAC (arguably an in between the P5 and G5) we have been very competitive- we just haven't won.  Everyone knows we should have won in 2017.  I think we probably should have won in 2015 (the 33-30 game).  Last year was a ridiculous rain storm and our QB couldn't grip the ball properly.  Remember we haven't won any non-conference games under Chuck Martin- not just UC.  I would hate to give up that rivalry and replace with more games with UMass and/or Liberty.  
    Bash_RiprockNescacdadDICK
  • grumpy1grumpy1 Senior Barfly
    Redsea said:

    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    I agree we are not competitive with Xavier and UC in basketball.  We haven't been competitive with Dayton in basketball.  Those rivalries are already gone.

    I do not agree with the football doom and gloom with UC.  UC is probably at a higher level - but in our massive losing streak they were in a BCS conference for many of those years.  Since they were relegated to the AAC (arguably an in between the P5 and G5) we have been very competitive- we just haven't won.  Everyone knows we should have won in 2017.  I think we probably should have won in 2015 (the 33-30 game).  Last year was a ridiculous rain storm and our QB couldn't grip the ball properly.  Remember we haven't won any non-conference games under Chuck Martin- not just UC.  I would hate to give up that rivalry and replace with more games with UMass and/or Liberty.  
    But their QB could?  Good teams win in all conditions; we find a way to lose, then make excuses.
  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    grumpy1 said:

    Redsea said:

    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    I agree we are not competitive with Xavier and UC in basketball.  We haven't been competitive with Dayton in basketball.  Those rivalries are already gone.

    I do not agree with the football doom and gloom with UC.  UC is probably at a higher level - but in our massive losing streak they were in a BCS conference for many of those years.  Since they were relegated to the AAC (arguably an in between the P5 and G5) we have been very competitive- we just haven't won.  Everyone knows we should have won in 2017.  I think we probably should have won in 2015 (the 33-30 game).  Last year was a ridiculous rain storm and our QB couldn't grip the ball properly.  Remember we haven't won any non-conference games under Chuck Martin- not just UC.  I would hate to give up that rivalry and replace with more games with UMass and/or Liberty.  
    But their QB could?  Good teams win in all conditions; we find a way to lose, then make excuses.
    I'm not an excuse guy (although every time I'm wrong, it is not my fault), but whoever got the lead first in that game was winning. They did. They also fornicate with livestock.
    Bash_Riprockredhawk11grumpy1
  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    =>UD dropped us in hoops.  I say we drop them in football.
    JCook32MooreHawk
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    mollautt said:

    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    =>UD dropped us in hoops.  I say we drop them in football.
    We did in the 70’s right?
  • IdiotfanIdiotfan Dodds God
    Cincinati owns us. Chuck not only made us losers but also called me a idiot. He was rite.
    redhawk11Nickskin
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    grumpy1 said:

    Redsea said:

    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    I agree we are not competitive with Xavier and UC in basketball.  We haven't been competitive with Dayton in basketball.  Those rivalries are already gone.

    I do not agree with the football doom and gloom with UC.  UC is probably at a higher level - but in our massive losing streak they were in a BCS conference for many of those years.  Since they were relegated to the AAC (arguably an in between the P5 and G5) we have been very competitive- we just haven't won.  Everyone knows we should have won in 2017.  I think we probably should have won in 2015 (the 33-30 game).  Last year was a ridiculous rain storm and our QB couldn't grip the ball properly.  Remember we haven't won any non-conference games under Chuck Martin- not just UC.  I would hate to give up that rivalry and replace with more games with UMass and/or Liberty.  
    But their QB could?  Good teams win in all conditions; we find a way to lose, then make excuses.
    Not really. UC completed six passes for 45 yards last year. Look i am not arguing we were better than UC last year. They were better. But we threw 41 passes in a hurricane and they threw 11. If conditions would have been better we would have had a better chance. We werent going to be able to run on them.

  • QuinoaburgerQuinoaburger Wealthy Alum
    Redsea said:

    grumpy1 said:

    Redsea said:

    Nickskin said:

    I agree with Swoop.  Miami is no longer competitive with Cincinnati in Football.  It is no longer competitive with X and UD in basketball.  Those rivalries are gone. 


    I agree we are not competitive with Xavier and UC in basketball.  We haven't been competitive with Dayton in basketball.  Those rivalries are already gone.

    I do not agree with the football doom and gloom with UC.  UC is probably at a higher level - but in our massive losing streak they were in a BCS conference for many of those years.  Since they were relegated to the AAC (arguably an in between the P5 and G5) we have been very competitive- we just haven't won.  Everyone knows we should have won in 2017.  I think we probably should have won in 2015 (the 33-30 game).  Last year was a ridiculous rain storm and our QB couldn't grip the ball properly.  Remember we haven't won any non-conference games under Chuck Martin- not just UC.  I would hate to give up that rivalry and replace with more games with UMass and/or Liberty.  
    But their QB could?  Good teams win in all conditions; we find a way to lose, then make excuses.
    we threw 41 passes in a hurricane

    Lol, Chuck
    ChiefPanic
  • Redhawks16Redhawks16 Wealthy Alum
    If UC were still a P5 school and beating us by 3 touchdowns every year, I would be much more inclined to end the series. But they aren't and they aren't. For me that just makes it really hard to walk away after all these years.
    Bash_Riprock
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    By the numbers.

    Miami's last win in the series came in 2005 with a 44-16 beat down of the Bearcats at Yager. Since then Miami is 0-13 in the series. During this winless streak Miami has been outscored on average 12.6 to 32.9 (losing by 3 TDs on average, more or less). Miami has been shutout three times during the streak. Surprisingly, UC scored a streak low of 14 points in the 2013 contest, the year Miami finished 0-12 (UC finished 9-4). During the Chuck Martin years Miami is 0-5* and has been outscored on average 18.8 to 27.4.  

    Aside from the odd result of the 2013 game, another game sticks out as really odd. The 2010 MAC champions (10-4) lost 45-3 to a UC team that finished 4-8 that year. That is UC's largest margin of victory during the streak.

    * includes Martin's 2017 brain fart.
  • Swoop2005Swoop2005 Summer Orientee
    JCook32 said:

    This is definitely not comparing apples to apples but just something to argue about - Miami has lost 14 of the past 15 to UC (including 13 straight). Four of the past five losses, outside of last year in the monsoon, were all within one score. No longer competitive.

    Michigan has lost 14 of the past 15 to Ohio State (included 8 straight). One of the past five losses was within one score. Are they no longer competitive with OSU in football?

    Again, there are so many other variables in play but thought that was just something interesting to look at. And for what it's worth, I think we're closer to UC than it seems others here think.

    I think this is interesting point. I guess the one difference is that UM and OSU are by all measurables, equal. Same conference, same facilities, same commitment to athletics. Miami and UC are not. I don’t have stats in front of me but I would imagine their coaches make more, their conference has more visibility, more bowl tie ins, etc. I think on an “up year”, we can compete and beat UC. On an up year for them, no way. If both are average, I am guessing we lose 8 out of 10. But I do agree with others in this forum that playing (and probably losing) to UC is better than another throw away game (win or lose) to someone that none of us care about.

  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum

    By the numbers.

    Miami's last win in the series came in 2005 with a 44-16 beat down of the Bearcats at Yager. Since then Miami is 0-13 in the series. During this winless streak Miami has been outscored on average 12.6 to 32.9 (losing by 3 TDs on average, more or less). Miami has been shutout three times during the streak. Surprisingly, UC scored a streak low of 14 points in the 2013 contest, the year Miami finished 0-12 (UC finished 9-4). During the Chuck Martin years Miami is 0-5* and has been outscored on average 18.8 to 27.4.  

    Aside from the odd result of the 2013 game, another game sticks out as really odd. The 2010 MAC champions (10-4) lost 45-3 to a UC team that finished 4-8 that year. That is UC's largest margin of victory during the streak.

    * includes Martin's 2017 brain fart.
    In the 2013 game Heywood held out 7 starters who all then started the next week at Central Michigan and we won.
  • Love_and_HonorLove_and_Honor Wealthy Alum
    I think you're thinking of another year, 2013 we had negative yards going into halftime and lost 14-0 with it being 0-0 into the 4th quarter. The highlight of that season was the 80-yard bouncing punt towards the end of the 2nd quarter. My personal favorite though was when Treadwell called a QB draw on 4th and 20.
    redhawk11
  • DavearamaDavearama Havighurstite
    Last year in the monsoon (I was at the game...very delightful warm rain and wind that literally never stopped...never) it was 7-0 to start the 4th quarter. It was a competitive game. They scored the killer 3rd TD with about  3 minutes left. 

    They just had a hell of a team and defense and a hell of a season. We couldn't run so we passed. For all the genius coaches in this group what the hell would you have us do? Run it three times and gain six yards? Make fun of Martin all you want but we were one score away, one break away almost the whole game. They had the better team for the rain game and we were still in it.

    They couldn't pass so they ran. And we had trouble stopping them. We had a lot of 3rd and longs deep in their territory where they moved the sticks. Kind of sickening to watch actually. And we had a pretty good defense. 

    Total offense was only 233 (USucks) to 198 (MU). The score didn't reflect the game. It was close...

    In the meantime, are you f'in nuts and would rather go see us play Eastern Missouri State than UC? 

    Lastly, our facilities are jaw dropping. My great nephew is full ride to UC. He was invited to MU camps twice and said we're 2nd to none. His eyes bug out when you talk about our locker room. Look at our recruiting and other than Fickell's 2nd year I think we're holding our own. 

    Lastly #2--need to win few games early (need a big upset this year) and get the students out of the uptown bars an their rooms and get their asses in the stands making some noise .Look over there and it's embarrassing. My high school team gets more kids in the stands than Miami does. 

    In the meantime we're closer than you think fellas. Don't give up hope. Love + Honor! 


    profholt82D_DayHawksGrad18Footbalheadagc
  • profholt82profholt82 Wealthy Alum
    Preach, Brother Dave!
  • 90skin90skin Senior Barfly
    I don't believe AAC will go to a 10 game conference schedule.  That would only leave 2 non--con games.  Not much opportunity for money games.  AAC is not P5, so limited attendance and $$ for conference games.  Either they only take buy games and get beat, or schedule G% (or FCS) home games to try and get wins, but weaken their strength of schedule.  Only the P5 ers can afford a 10 am conference schedule.

    UC may still drop us from the schedule, but I don't think it will be a result of a 10 game AAC schedule.
  • grumpy1grumpy1 Senior Barfly
    Davearama said:

    Last year in the monsoon (I was at the game...very delightful warm rain and wind that literally never stopped...never) it was 7-0 to start the 4th quarter. It was a competitive game. They scored the killer 3rd TD with about  3 minutes left. 


    They just had a hell of a team and defense and a hell of a season. We couldn't run so we passed. For all the genius coaches in this group what the hell would you have us do? Run it three times and gain six yards? Make fun of Martin all you want but we were one score away, one break away almost the whole game. They had the better team for the rain game and we were still in it.

    They couldn't pass so they ran. And we had trouble stopping them. We had a lot of 3rd and longs deep in their territory where they moved the sticks. Kind of sickening to watch actually. And we had a pretty good defense. 

    Total offense was only 233 (USucks) to 198 (MU). The score didn't reflect the game. It was close...

    In the meantime, are you f'in nuts and would rather go see us play Eastern Missouri State than UC? 

    Lastly, our facilities are jaw dropping. My great nephew is full ride to UC. He was invited to MU camps twice and said we're 2nd to none. His eyes bug out when you talk about our locker room. Look at our recruiting and other than Fickell's 2nd year I think we're holding our own. 

    Lastly #2--need to win few games early (need a big upset this year) and get the students out of the uptown bars an their rooms and get their asses in the stands making some noise .Look over there and it's embarrassing. My high school team gets more kids in the stands than Miami does. 

    In the meantime we're closer than you think fellas. Don't give up hope. Love + Honor! 


    So we're heading into Year 6 of a 10 year plan?
  • BluesmanBluesman Wealthy Alum
    I am opposed to all games against East Missouri State!!
  • mollauttmollautt Wealthy Alum
    grumpy1 said:

    Davearama said:

    Last year in the monsoon (I was at the game...very delightful warm rain and wind that literally never stopped...never) it was 7-0 to start the 4th quarter. It was a competitive game. They scored the killer 3rd TD with about  3 minutes left. 


    They just had a hell of a team and defense and a hell of a season. We couldn't run so we passed. For all the genius coaches in this group what the hell would you have us do? Run it three times and gain six yards? Make fun of Martin all you want but we were one score away, one break away almost the whole game. They had the better team for the rain game and we were still in it.

    They couldn't pass so they ran. And we had trouble stopping them. We had a lot of 3rd and longs deep in their territory where they moved the sticks. Kind of sickening to watch actually. And we had a pretty good defense. 

    Total offense was only 233 (USucks) to 198 (MU). The score didn't reflect the game. It was close...

    In the meantime, are you f'in nuts and would rather go see us play Eastern Missouri State than UC? 

    Lastly, our facilities are jaw dropping. My great nephew is full ride to UC. He was invited to MU camps twice and said we're 2nd to none. His eyes bug out when you talk about our locker room. Look at our recruiting and other than Fickell's 2nd year I think we're holding our own. 

    Lastly #2--need to win few games early (need a big upset this year) and get the students out of the uptown bars an their rooms and get their asses in the stands making some noise .Look over there and it's embarrassing. My high school team gets more kids in the stands than Miami does. 

    In the meantime we're closer than you think fellas. Don't give up hope. Love + Honor! 


    So we're heading into Year 6 of a 10 year plan?
    =>Year 10 of the 6 year plan actually.
    redhawk11
  • elpalitoelpalito Wealthy Alum

    I think you're thinking of another year, 2013 we had negative yards going into halftime and lost 14-0 with it being 0-0 into the 4th quarter. The highlight of that season was the 80-yard bouncing punt towards the end of the 2nd quarter. My personal favorite though was when Treadwell called a QB draw on 4th and 20.

    I actively hated that man. 
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