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Recent Miami Student article on the UC rivalry

NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
edited October 21 in Football
https://www.miamistudent.net/article/2021/09/the-victory-bell-is-dead-and-the-big-east-killed-it

The Miami student sports reporter has pretty much hit the nail right on the head. The money the Bearcats made from their two NY6 games also contributed. UC’s elevation to an AQ conference from CUSA also helped Brian Kelly separate Miami and UC in the southwestern Ohio recruiting game. He purposefully treated Miami like an FCS team during his stint in Clifton. UC will probably want to continue the series because it’s cheap to play and almost guarantees them a win against an FBS team rather than one from FCS..

Comments

  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    Nescacdad said:

    https://www.miamistudent.net/article/2021/09/the-victory-bell-is-dead-and-the-big-east-killed-it

    The Miami student sports reporter has pretty much hit the nail right on the head. The money the Bearcats made from their two NY6 games also contributed. UC’s elevation to an AQ conference from CUSA also helped Brian Kelly separate Miami and UC in the southwestern Ohio recruiting game. He purposely treated Miami like an FCS team during his stint in Clifton. UC will probably want to continue the series because it’s cheap to play and almost guarantees them a win against an FBS team rather than one from FCS..

    Point well made and noted
  • thechuck_2112thechuck_2112 Wealthy Alum
    I'd rather just get out of the series now when it's all tied up. No point in subjecting ourselves to this every year just to help UC look good.
  • JHVMUFBAlumJHVMUFBAlum Off-Campus Slummer
    We will beat them. There is a lot of history here. Keep this game. We will beat them again and hopefully soon.
  • ButlerCountyButlerCounty Summer Orientee

    We will beat them. There is a lot of history here. Keep this game. We will beat them again and hopefully soon.

    We have not beaten them since 2005. They are getting better, going to a better conference, growing their fan base and putting more money and resources into their program. Sure odds are if you play a team every year you will catch them on a down year or two but realistically how many times are we gonna to be able beat them going forward? We could not even beat them when Tuberville was there.

    I’d rather see Miami try and schedule so more winnable OOC games, that way the team is not facing 1-3 going into conference play. Let’s schedule UConn, Temple or Tulane (road trip anyone?).
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum

    I'd rather just get out of the series now when it's all tied up. No point in subjecting ourselves to this every year just to help UC look good.

    Agreed....it's far too tainted now....losing this many, if we pulled out a win or two when we should have...then fine...but not anymore.

    It's over...especially if Chuck is retiring here.
  • Love_and_HonorLove_and_Honor Wealthy Alum
    Our chance to turn the tables was during the mid 2010s when they were average to crappy under Tuberville, unfortunately we shat the bed under Treadwell and Chuck didn't get the job done when they were vulnerable (keep in mind that we were very close and probably should've won at least one of the games from 2014-16 even before Timeoutgate).

    Generally speaking rivalries don't automatically die because one program goes on a huge winning streak (see Army/Navy until recently or OSU/Michigan for awhile now), it's also because the cultural significance fades and/or one program completely falls off altogether. Let's say that since 2005 we had OU's record under Solich instead of reality; even if we still lost ever UC game it still would mean more than it does now given that they would've beaten a perennial bowl school and MAC contender (with much better fan support) instead of the apathetic doormat we turned into.
  • RedseaRedsea Wealthy Alum
    I totally disagree with ending this game. You are all tired of hearing me say it. Ending the UC basketball series hasnt helped Miami bb.

    Skin66- do you have a feel from your Colorado State friends how they view the Colorado series? I think that is the best long term comparable of how this should go. They have played regularly since 1983 and it is 24-8 Colorado
  • skin66skin66 Wealthy Alum
    Redsea said:

    I totally disagree with ending this game. You are all tired of hearing me say it. Ending the UC basketball series hasnt helped Miami bb.

    Skin66- do you have a feel from your Colorado State friends how they view the Colorado series? I think that is the best long term comparable of how this should go. They have played regularly since 1983 and it is 24-8 Colorado




    It still seems to be a big deal. Lots of build up and then more let down. It seems to be a good comparison.
  • ButlerCountyButlerCounty Summer Orientee
    Redsea said:

    I totally disagree with ending this game. You are all tired of hearing me say it. Ending the UC basketball series hasnt helped Miami bb.

    Skin66- do you have a feel from your Colorado State friends how they view the Colorado series? I think that is the best long term comparable of how this should go. They have played regularly since 1983 and it is 24-8 Colorado

    They paused the CU-CSU series for two years; they are supposed to pick up games for 2023-24, then 2029-2023 and finally 2037 and 2038.
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    The thing that might keep UC out of the CFP this year is their SOS. Even though an FBS win is better than an FCS one, might the Bearcats want to improve their schedule strength going forward, or will the move to the Big XII strengthen it enough?
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    The can only play two OOC games once they move to the Big 12 instead of three. They can strengthen their schedule simply by continuing to play us while jettisoning the FCS game they’d been playing.
    Re6H5wk said:

    The thing that might keep UC out of the CFP this year is their SOS. Even though an FBS win is better than an FCS one, might the Bearcats want to improve their schedule strength going forward, or will the move to the Big XII strengthen it enough?

  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    The last two times we played UC in Oxford, we were ahead with two minutes to go in the game.  Right now we still have 3 home games scheduled.  We will get them sooner or later.

    For most of this 15 game run, UC has been a rated team and we have been a bad team.  UC has never been better than they are right now, and that will be impossible to maintain.  They simply don't have the resources or support of OSU or Alabama, for instance.  Our program right now is about as good as it has been during this 15 year run.  Like Red Sea, I see this as a great opportunity for us.  I think a lot of you seem whimpy.  UC is going to be graduating a lot of talent, and they will not be such an experienced team the next couple of years.  We are significantly younger this year.
  • grumpy1grumpy1 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    The last two times we played UC in Oxford, we were ahead with two minutes to go in the game.  Right now we still have 3 home games scheduled.  We will get them sooner or later.


    For most of this 15 game run, UC has been a rated team and we have been a bad team.  UC has never been better than they are right now, and that will be impossible to maintain.  They simply don't have the resources or support of OSU or Alabama, for instance.  Our program right now is about as good as it has been during this 15 year run.  Like Red Sea, I see this as a great opportunity for us.  I think a lot of you seem whimpy.  UC is going to be graduating a lot of talent, and they will not be such an experienced team the next couple of years.  We are significantly younger this year.
    I don’t have the time to wait for “later”.

  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    edited October 21
    Sorry to hear that Grumpy....Having a good Power 5 team playing in Oxford 3 or 4 times a decade is a dream situation for any G5 team.  It is up to us to become good enough to win some of those games.
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    Nescacdad said:

    The can only play two OOC games once they move to the Big 12 instead of three. They can strengthen their schedule simply by continuing to play us while jettisoning the FCS game they’d been playing.

    Re6H5wk said:

    The thing that might keep UC out of the CFP this year is their SOS. Even though an FBS win is better than an FCS one, might the Bearcats want to improve their schedule strength going forward, or will the move to the Big XII strengthen it enough?

    The Big XII plays 10 conference games?
  • JHVMUFBAlumJHVMUFBAlum Off-Campus Slummer
    edited October 22
    DICK said:

    The last two times we played UC in Oxford, we were ahead with two minutes to go in the game.  Right now we still have 3 home games scheduled.  We will get them sooner or later.


    For most of this 15 game run, UC has been a rated team and we have been a bad team.  UC has never been better than they are right now, and that will be impossible to maintain.  They simply don't have the resources or support of OSU or Alabama, for instance.  Our program right now is about as good as it has been during this 15 year run.  Like Red Sea, I see this as a great opportunity for us.  I think a lot of you seem whimpy.  UC is going to be graduating a lot of talent, and they will not be such an experienced team the next couple of years.  We are significantly younger this year.



    Right on and well said. 
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    They have been playing 9. I read or heard somewhere a while back that - since they are increasing their number of teams to12 and don’t plan to split into divisions - they may be playing 10 conference games after the new conference is fully assembled. That would set them up for one OOC against a P5 and once against a G5 or FCS. The noise from the UC fans is that they’d rather pay a Michigan State and Miami than a Michigan State and Austin Peay. I’m not sure I’ve seen anything official on that.
    Re6H5wk said:

    Nescacdad said:

    The can only play two OOC games once they move to the Big 12 instead of three. They can strengthen their schedule simply by continuing to play us while jettisoning the FCS game they’d been playing.

    Re6H5wk said:

    The thing that might keep UC out of the CFP this year is their SOS. Even though an FBS win is better than an FCS one, might the Bearcats want to improve their schedule strength going forward, or will the move to the Big XII strengthen it enough?

    The Big XII plays 10 conference games?
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    Gotta disagree.....only thing looking like a wimp or wimpy (or maybe Dick was combining Whiny and Wimpy = Whimpy, ha) is Chuck Martin...he defines it.

    This series is now a joke!  Miami and largely Chuck Martin has made it that way....it's not just UC, Miami is on 30+ game losing streak in the Battle for the FBS "Bell".....15 straight to UC (not 5, not 8 not 10....15!)

    All this series now does is reminds everyone in the local area that Miami is maybe not even a FBS school.....I kid you not, many in the local area do not think Miami plays the same division as Ohio State and UC.

    I'd be good with playing UC on a rotating three year schedule, by then CM may be gone and we'll have a coach that actually tries to win OOC games.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    UC definitely wants to continue the series. Maybe the payout could be restructured so it looks more like a 2 for 1 buy game for us with a Power 5 team like Wedt Virginia or Pittsburgh.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    Call me a stubborn 1978 grad, but want to continue the series. Good point made above that if the series was to continue we will be able to get a P5 school into Oxford once every 3 years as an incentive in itself. Of course with future extension agreements UC might not agree to come to Oxford at all which would complicate things.
  • DavearamaDavearama Off-Campus Slummer
    Cincykid3--like your thinking. I should have been a '78 grad and squeezed four years into five when i graduated in '79. Track scholarship helped with that I'd add:) Boy did we see some games!!! And I'm born and raised in Cincy and was once recruited by USucks. (They made a wise choice and didn't offer!) I've got lots of family that went and played there and have taken about twenty tons of good natured ribbing over the last 15 years at family get togethers about our long running miseries. 
    All that said, like Dick said, we've been way too close in a number of recent years. It'll be a bigger game for us than it is for them and while it's going to be generally UC wins we'll get 'em every now and then and that's just fine with me. Like others have said, if we can get a P5 school into Oxford every three or so years that'll be cool and we'll have our chances. 
    If you've ever been in the stadium when it's absolutely packed and buzzing you know what I mean. This is one of the oldest series/rivalries in all of football. Right now, when we've been close it would be a shame to end it. Sadly if it got to say 25 or so straight by then it might be time. 
  • muredhawks22muredhawks22 Havighurstite
    I'm an '09 grad, and only think there were a couple of games that I can truly recall as being jam packed.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    The Cincy series with Miami dramatically illustrates the favorable impact being AQ and Power 5 has had on outcomes.

    In going back over the past 20 years of our games, that becomes quite apparent. Starting with 2001 - when Cincy was in CUSA, we won 4 of the next five games by about a touchdown - a highly competitive rivalry. Our last win was a big one 44-16 in 2005, the first year UC moved up to the Big East, became a member of an AQ conference, and began to realize a monetary and prestige advantage over us that led to a distinct recruiting advantage within our traditional footprint.

    UC won the next seven games against us by an average of 30 points per game. We were never closer than 14 points - in 2006. During that seven years, Cincy went to a NY6 Bowl game, reaped all kinds of national attention and financial rewards never even imagined by Miami. All during that period their coaches publicly played down Miami’s existence as an FBS program.

    With the demise of the Big East, UC again became mortal - back to our level as a G5 but as a member of probably the top G5 conference, The damage to parity, though, had largely been done.

    While we were floundering badly during the Don’t experience and later while trying to regain some momentum under CM, their program also took a bit of a downturn during the Terriible Tommy Tuberville era. We came fairly close to snapping the losing streak but could never do it. UC has now won 8 straight since joining the American by an average of 14 points. We were within a touchdown four straight times between 2014 and 2017, but got shut out 21-0 in Fickle’s second year and have been drubbed twice more since.

    Starting next year, or as soon as UC moves to the Power 5 Big 12, any sense of parity and all perception - even if not actual - of a level playing field will vanish completely. We will be basically back to the imbalance that existed when the Bearcats were in the Big East. Their rival will become West Virginia. We will be the equivalent of their FCS warmup game.

    I’m willing to watch the series as it plays out through 2029. But I’m not expecting us to regain any competitiveness in it.

    And just to clarify, I’ve been following Miami football and the Victory Bell rivalry since 1964.
  • profholt82profholt82 Wealthy Alum
    One of the oldest rivalries in all of football, and you guys want it to be over because we've sucked for a while? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! Man up, ladies. That's loser talk. Yes, UC has gotten much better the last 20 years while we have gotten worse, but that doesn't mean things are destined to be that way in perpetuity.

    Ok, so they're going to the Big 12, good for them. But that doesn't automatically mean that they're going to be some amazing team from here on out. I can think of a lot of crappy Big 12 teams from over the years. A bigger conference does not automatically make a program good forever. Especially now since the big money bell cows Texas and Oklahoma are leaving. The Big 12 will be crappiest "power 5" conference, and maybe even lose that status. Who knows what the future holds?

    But my crystal ball tells me that regardless of conference, our Redhawks are due to stick it to the Bear Pussies, and it'll happen. They won't be up forever and we won't be down forever, everything shakes out eventually.
  • skin66skin66 Wealthy Alum
    Like, lol, and what he said.
  • muredhawks22muredhawks22 Havighurstite
    Profholt82 well said!
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    So it ends the way it ended for the boys in Delta House - we go out by crashing their homecoming parade?
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    Nescacdad said:

    So it ends the way it ended for the boys in Delta House - we go out by crashing their homecoming parade?

    Yes, and Chuck Martin becomes a U.S. Senator.....

    ....and Luke Fickell gets shot in Clifton by his own players.
  • JHVMUFBAlumJHVMUFBAlum Off-Campus Slummer
    Profholt82 is very close to being right on……
    Too many other posts that basically have no hope.

    We will rise again. 
    Don’t give up the ship!
  • JHVMUFBAlumJHVMUFBAlum Off-Campus Slummer
    Give us back LIKE buttons and NEED BEER buttons, etc.
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