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MAC’s Move

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  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2021/10/21/no-conference-usa-invitation-but-could-realignment-finally-trickle-down-new-mexico-state/6121110001/

    Interesting article from Las Cruces. It seems there is a least a little discussion taking place within the WAC, now an FCS league, about moving to FBS and joining forces with the remnants of CUSA..Here are the current WAC football schools. And as an aside, Dixie State is trying to change its name…for rather obvious reasons.

    https://wacsports.com/sports/fball/2021-22/standings

    Who knew the Texas Oklahoma move would trigger such college football intrigue.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    https://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports/columnists/chuck_landon/chuck-landon-door-to-sun-belt-is-open-for-marshall/article_d8a3ee20-cb2b-5124-866b-6ade8bb15ec3.html

    This article - from way back on September 13 - leaves little doubt about what Marshall is going to do.

    PS - I would remind the Sun Belt Commissioner that the MAC also had two teams ranked in the top 25 at the end of last season. Both won their bowl games.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    Probably wishful thinking from New Mexico State....

    Marshall may just stay in C-DOA but if the Sunbelt ends up adding just USM and Marshall (as some media tweets have now suggested), it will set up a very interesting landscape w C-USA forced to look for scraps to rebuild.

    The MAC can then take their time, and survey the situation, and decide if any expansion is worthwhile, presumably w ESPN support.
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  
  • mpurdy22mpurdy22 Havighurstite
    https://twitter.com/GabeMcDonald_/status/1451573270856208392

    SunBelt close to adding Southern Miss, Marshall, JMU and ODU.

    Western Kentucky and MTSU will be left with decisions to make.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    https://www.khon2.com/sports/national-sports/aq7-in-2021-two-fcs-conferences-better-as-one/

    Clarification of the WAC teams. To use a relationship term: It’s complicated. Looks to be the waiting room for many teams hoping to jump to FBS.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    I’m guessing it may have had something to do with both UTEP and NM State having solid reputations for being perennial losers in football.

    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  

  • skin66skin66 Wealthy Alum

    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  




    Ah, but how many breweries does it have.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    https://saturdayblitz.com/2021/10/22/conference-usa-football-in-danger-dissolving/

    Posted a few minutes ago….Jacob Ellerby of Fansided openly predicting the demise of CUSA. He’s wrong in his opinion that Liberty would be welcome almost anywhere. Needs to do a little more research theres.
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    skin66 said:

    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  




    Ah, but how many breweries does it have.
    Quite a few actually... El Paso Brewing Co., Blazing Tree Brewery, DeadBeach Brewery, and Mountain Star Brewing Co. to name a few. 
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    https://www.americanpress.com/2021/10/22/cowboys-dreaming-of-greener-pastures-searching-for-new-conference/

    McNeese State now actively throwing its hat into the ring - independently - looking for an FBS promotion to either the Belt or CUSA.

    This is fun to watch!
  • skin66skin66 Wealthy Alum

    skin66 said:

    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  




    Ah, but how many breweries does it have.
    Quite a few actually... El Paso Brewing Co., Blazing Tree Brewery, DeadBeach Brewery, and Mountain Star Brewing Co. to name a few. 

    Like
  • Bash_RiprockBash_Riprock Wealthy Alum
    Nescacdad said:

    I’m guessing it may have had something to do with both UTEP and NM State having solid reputations for being perennial losers in football.


    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  

    That didn't stop the Big Ten from asking Rutgers to join. 
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    Yep. But the NYC Market is just a little more lucrative than the El Paso market.

    Nescacdad said:

    I’m guessing it may have had something to do with both UTEP and NM State having solid reputations for being perennial losers in football.


    I never understood why the Mountain West Conference (essentially remnants of the old WAC and old Big West/Pacific Coast Athletic Association) did not take old WAC member UTEP. El Paso is a fairly big media market, particularly if you include Ciudad Juarez across the river and Las Cruces, NM (only 50 miles up river from El Paso). That's a metro area of over million people. It's certainly bigger than Reno, NV, Laramie, WY, Colorado Springs, CO, and Fort Collins, CO.  

    That didn't stop the Big Ten from asking Rutgers to join. 
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    DICK said:

    Adding those teams is very unlikely to give us two NCAA bids.  It will just make it that much harder to win the MACC and actually get in.  We will lose plenty of money by dividing the college football playoff money 14 ways instead of 12.  I understand why WKU and MTSU would want to join our league, I just don't think it helps us.  It helps them.

    I am quoting myself because I think a few posters have not accurately read what I  said.  For mpurdy20 and Cincykid3, this post does not say anything about dividing the ESPN money 14 ways instead of 12.  Indeed, the MAC will surely not add teams unless ESPN adds enough money to the pot that individual shares do not drop.  I mentioned the college football playoff money.  Those shares would have to be divided 14 ways instead of 12 and so would the NCAA basketball revenue shares.  That would cost all 12 MAC teams money.

    For Mighty MU, My point that adding those two schools would certainly help those two schools, getting them into a more compact conference and increasing their TV exposure and their conference revenues, it does none of those things for us.  Your response was to mention cheering for and supporting fellow MAC schools, which I do probably more than any other person I have ever known.  I certainly would do that for WKU and MTSU if they are added.  It just was not responsive to what I actually said.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    Good points Dick. I was wondering about the comments made earlier about the addition of part of the Kentucky and Tennessee media markets would potentially expand the MAC footprint....not sure how much value that would add.
  • profholt82profholt82 Wealthy Alum
    Maz said:

    Bluesman said:

    MooreHawk said:

    nobody has come up with a business model that allows people to read out-of-market local news stories yet.

    They have,  It's called a paywall.
    Sometimes you can bypass paywalls by using the "reader mode" in your browser. It's website software dependent of course, but I find that it works about 1/3 of the time or so.
  • profholt82profholt82 Wealthy Alum
    Nescacdad said:

    https://www.americanpress.com/2021/10/22/cowboys-dreaming-of-greener-pastures-searching-for-new-conference/

    McNeese State now actively throwing its hat into the ring - independently - looking for an FBS promotion to either the Belt or CUSA.

    This is fun to watch!

    The alma mater of one of my childhood heroes, Mr. Joe Dumars. Or I should say, Joe Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuumars.
  • MightyMUMightyMU Dodds God
    edited October 22
    DICK said:

    DICK said:

    Adding those teams is very unlikely to give us two NCAA bids.  It will just make it that much harder to win the MACC and actually get in.  We will lose plenty of money by dividing the college football playoff money 14 ways instead of 12.  I understand why WKU and MTSU would want to join our league, I just don't think it helps us.  It helps them.

    I am quoting myself because I think a few posters have not accurately read what I  said.  For mpurdy20 and Cincykid3, this post does not say anything about dividing the ESPN money 14 ways instead of 12.  Indeed, the MAC will surely not add teams unless ESPN adds enough money to the pot that individual shares do not drop.  I mentioned the college football playoff money.  Those shares would have to be divided 14 ways instead of 12 and so would the NCAA basketball revenue shares.  That would cost all 12 MAC teams money.

    For Mighty MU, My point that adding those two schools would certainly help those two schools, getting them into a more compact conference and increasing their TV exposure and there conference revenues, it does none of those things for us.  Your response was to mention cheering for and supporting fellow MAC schools, which I do probably more than any other person I have ever known.  I certainly would do that for WKU and MTSU if they are added.  It just was not responsive to what I actually said.
    Dick--I respect you as much, or more, than anyone on this board. I look forward to your reports on games, etc. But my point was that who would those TV games during the conference season be against? Other MAC schools. so when we played WKU/MTSU, wouldn't our game be televised? Sure it would. However, I would want to see ESPN commit to more games, not just spread the same number of games over 14, not 12.That would be an issue/a big negative, Will there be more games scheduled by ESPN? I have no idea. I hope so, as our footprint would be increased. Also, we would get more pub in two states we recruit heavily. And this is alot more than "cheers and supporting MAC teams," for our teams. Increased attendance is of vital importance to Miami becoming consistently very good.That is a hopeful result of this action.
    You assume the result would, "increase their TV revenues and conference revenues, it does none of those things for us." With all due respect, that is an unknown. Those are certainly issues that must be examined, considered, and determined to be good, or bad, for us and the rest of the MAC. Also, I believe they will they have to pay an entry fee. If it's million per school, I am sure Sayler would welcome a "bonus" of $167,000.
    Also for us, the easiest thing we can do to make this work if it happens is to win games. Lots of games. And as I said above, I fear neither of those teams.
  • EDDIEEDDIE Wealthy Alum
    Indeed.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    The talk of WKU to the MAC appears to be all moot if Marshall decides to stay in C-USA...in that case it appears the Sunbelt will ask WKU back..kinda humiliating actually.

    GET THIS: The talk on the Marshall board is that their hoops HC is against moving to the Sunbelt because of their bad basketball and wants them to re-engage discussions with the MAC due to our much better hoops.

    If Marshall does leave C-USA then the MAC can analyze the pros and cons of inviting WKU and MTSU.....no idea of the math will work out but if the conference were to desire slightly expanding the geographic footprint these schools appears somewhat reasonable.
  • DICKDICK Wealthy Alum
    MightyMU...Yes, there is some value in getting the MAC into two other states.  IF we would go to 14, I think we would get a few more TV games.  The total number of NCAA FBS teams has not and may not go up with this series of conference expansion, so the TV networks will want to at least maintain their TV coverage volume and we will have two more teams out of the total of 130 FBS schools.

    Now as to the issue of entry fees, I am not so sure about that.  I just talked to a UC season ticket holder Wednesday and asked him that question and he said he thinks there is no entry fee for UC joining the Big 12, although they do owe the AAC at least $10 million in exit fees and maybe a lot more than that if they would be allowed to leave immediately instead of waiting 3 years as they are required by AAC rules.  IF the MAC actually charges an entry fee, that would be a nice bonus for one year only.  The MAC did get exit fees when UCF and Temple and UMass left.
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum
    Dick, the old school conference mentality completely ignores the direction college sports is going. There's a large group that thinks if the MAC doesn't make smart moves during this realignment period, they won't survive the next one.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    edited October 22
    I do not profess to know exactly where college sports are heading but it does seem to me that if allowing WKU and MTSU to join the MAC with an acceptable financial outcome to current members and hopefully more exposure on ESPN, might make sense.

    Another consideration (albeit a predatory one) would be that if Marshall, USM, ODU and JMU join Sunbelt and the MAC takes in WKU and MTSU, C-USA as a relatively competitive G5 conference effectively ceases to exist, and may provide the MAC an opportunity to fill that void w more and better TV exposure, bowl slots, and perhaps even a better $$ deal from ESPN (which seems to be calling the shots on much of this).

    The negative of this (assuming the financial side is acceptable) would be that the MAC may need to shift into north and south divisions to better accommodate the southern bent of the Conference. This would in turn provide more economical travel for intra divisional play.
  • FredFred Havighurstite
    The perspective from a disinterested observer: seems like a silly game of musical chairs being played on a sinking ship. A few of these G5 programs may be thriving, but I’d hate to see the financials of most of them. 
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    Fred: pretty sure most are propped up by students fees
  • JiveHawkJiveHawk Wealthy Alum
    Cincykid3 said:

    Fred: pretty sure most are propped up by students fees

    IIRC, the MAC is the worst conference for student fees. Other G5 conferences are not as bad. Make smart moves and it becomes a lot easier to reduce the amount of student fees. Make bad moves (or no moves) and there's no opportunity to do that.
  • FredFred Havighurstite
    I know about the fees and admit I’m somewhat of a broken record in my negative posts. 
    I recall reading that some of the southern G5 schools (JMU, etc..) also have high fees. It didn’t take  long to find this article, which I believe has been shared here in the past.
  • MazMaz Senior Barfly
    https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32453666/sources-southern-miss-join-sun-belt-conference-early-2023

    This article seems to support the idea that Marshall isn’t excited about the Sun Belt. It is also interesting that the source calls Southern Miss to the Sun Belt a “done deal’. It makes me wonder if the source is Chuck Landon.

    If Marshall is asked to come back to the MAC, we had better negotiate a hefty exit fee.
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    Southern Miss announced late last night that their move to the Sun Belt has been finalized.
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