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Fire Chuck Martin

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Comments

  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2018
    Not sure how Ohio lost to UC though...they all but had that won.  They were dominating that game in the first half.

    Sort of like timeout gate for us.
    Nescacdad
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    Frank Solich came to OU in 2005. Here's a comparison of his OOC record since 2007 through 2018 compared to ours.

    Against P-5 schools, Solich's teams are 5-13. Against non-MAC and non P-5 teams, his record is 24-6.

    Against P-5 schools, we are 1-18. Against non-MAC and non P-5 teams, we are 6-23.

    OU has won 4 more games against P-5 schools than we have over the past 12 years (while playing one less contest against P-5 opponents than we have). Against non P-5 teams, OU has 18 more wins than we do....and 17 fewer losses.

    The 4 more P-5 wins and 18 more non P-5 wins total 22 more wins over a 12 year stretch...which works out to almost two more wins a year....and helps explain OU's ability to go bowling almost every year. Further, in "eye-balling OU's schedule over the past 12 years, their OOC non P-5 schedule appears to be substantially softer than ours. (We have UC to deal with every year with an occasional softie threown in while OU almost annually feasts on the likes of Idaho, Howard, Gardner-Webb,SE Louisiana, Wofford, Cal Poly, New Mexico State, Texas State, VMI....several on multiple occasions.

    (If we include UC in the P-5 group, we are 1-30 and, against non-MAC and other non P-5 teams, we are 6-11). OU appears to schedule for Bowl eligibility while we schedule for something else.




    Nickskin
  • Re6H5wkRe6H5wk Wealthy Alum
    DevilGrad said:

    If we have a coaching search this winter, some aspects of the program and facilities will be in better shape than when Chuck got here, but the ridiculously over-inflated expectations of our administration and the thousand people who actually give a flying fuck about Miami football will be laid bare.  


    With a win next week, Chuck will be 16-8 in MAC games over the past three seasons (after the first two rebuilding years) yet nearly everyone here wants his head on a stick because he doesn't win enough nonconference games.  Well, in case y'all hadn't noticed, the resource disparities between the P5 and the G5 have only grown over the past couple of decades, and firing a guy for not winning against a nonconference schedule with a top 25 team and (likely) three other bowl teams with significantly more resources than we have would signal to the market that is a job only for fools.  

    It's not 1975 any more -- and it's never going to be again -- so we need to build a realistic program on realistic expectations.  
    He doesn't win ANY non-conference games.
    AORedHawk33JiveHawkLove_and_HonorskinsJHVMUFBAlumaba222
  • bpatbpat Wealthy Alum
    How come Herby is repping Chuck so much on Twitter?
  • Iam4hawksIam4hawks Wealthy Alum
    I've had similar thoughts and I think we can still have goals that are significant.  My thoughts have been the following: 

    Attendance: 
    20,000 avg. attendance for football
    5,000 avg. attendance for basketball
    3,000 avg. attendance for hockey
    Push for 1,000 attendance for volleyball, w basketball; 500 for baseball and 250 softball if not more. 

    Football...MAC championship every 4-5 years, .500 or better
    Tomahawk win every 3-5 years on average
    Finish in the top 50








    JHVMUFBAlum
  • CalOhHawkCalOhHawk Havighurstite
    Could someone on this board provide a complete team  injury report and potential redshirt status of the injured players? We may have an even stronger team next year depending on the QB situation. We will have depth in many positions with some excellent young players. Miami would be a good situation for the right coach. Martin still may be that coach depending on the outcome of the BSU game and how he handles himself after the game.
  • MUHawk84MUHawk84 Wealthy Alum
    DevilGrad said:

    If we have a coaching search this winter, some aspects of the program and facilities will be in better shape than when Chuck got here, but the ridiculously over-inflated expectations of our administration and the thousand people who actually give a flying fuck about Miami football will be laid bare.  


    With a win next week, Chuck will be 16-8 in MAC games over the past three seasons (after the first two rebuilding years) yet nearly everyone here wants his head on a stick because he doesn't win enough nonconference games.  Well, in case y'all hadn't noticed, the resource disparities between the P5 and the G5 have only grown over the past couple of decades, and firing a guy for not winning against a nonconference schedule with a top 25 team and (likely) three other bowl teams with significantly more resources than we have would signal to the market that is a job only for fools.  

    It's not 1975 any more -- and it's never going to be again -- so we need to build a realistic program on realistic expectations.  
    I'd argue our administration, outside of Sayler, has NO to LITTLE expectations of this team.
  • MUHawk84MUHawk84 Wealthy Alum
    DICK said:

    Ohio is no better than we are this year,  but they will likely finish 8-4.  That is scheduling.  While we played UC 9-1, Army 8-2, Minnesota 5-5, and Marshall 6-3 and went 0-4, Ohio played a tougher schedule than usual, but with two easy wins.  They lost to Virginia7-3 and UC 9-1, but picked up wins over UMass 4-7 and Howard FCS.  They always schedule at least 2 pretty sure wins.  Plus they seldom play teams like Michigan or Notre Dame where there is almost no chance of winning.  They are going for their 10 straight bowl game season, and scheduling some non league wins isa big part of that.  Next year we play at Ohio State, at Iowa, and at Cincinnati, not even UCF or Boise would win 2 of those 3 games.


    Now we seem to need to play some body bag games to make money.  Ohio doesn't do that, but because of their continued success, they almost always draw  20,000 - 25,000 for all of their Saturday home games.
    Thats a good point. What is better for Miami in the long run? A one time payout, or building winning seasons, building a positive reputation and generating fan interest again?
  • NescacdadNescacdad Wealthy Alum
    Good point. I wonder if we’d be talking about UCF as much this year if they were 8-2 with losses to Alabama and Michigan instead of 10-0 against a much softer schedule.
  • grumpy1grumpy1 Wealthy Alum
    It's beginning to look like a late season win streak might save Chuck's ass.  In my mind this would be a mistake, fool's gold if you will.  He's not going to change his coaching philosophy after all these years.  He will continue to be ultra conservative on offense when he has a lead in the 2nd half.  He will continue to have clock and game management issues.

    If he stays I'm afraid that this time next year we will have threads similar to this, and a similar record.  How long will we be happy with 6-6?
    redhawk11skinsJHVMUFBAlumMacCracken
  • muredhawks22muredhawks22 Havighurstite
    While I agree that Chuck's second half offense with the lead is atrocious, my biggest issue with him is that it takes him too long to get going.  I realize we tend to play tougher opponents out of conference than we do in conference, however it takes too many games for him to get the team in rhythm, playing consistently well, etc.  We start slow every year, almost like he/the team isn't ready for the first few games.  By year 5, this shouldn't be happening. 

    I will say that while I got frustrated with some of the play calling in the second half against NIU, the weather, how well our D and special teams were playing, played a huge factor in that.  It wasn't just Chuck doing his typical prevent offense.  I wish he would have run the ball out of more than just the jumbo formation, but oh well.

    All in all, I won't be thrilled to have Chuck back, however I won't be rioting either.  He has taken longer to learn on the job than I would have liked, but he seems to have improved a decent amount this year as a head coach over years past.
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2018
    I think thats accurate, but he also may be less reliant on players that helped "turn the tide"...since they'll be gone.

    Hard to tell from NIU game...OU second half seemed to register...interesting to see how Ball U game goes.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2018
    Sure has been quiet (officially) with regards to Chuck’s status. If Sayler already told him he’s gone I am surprised it hasn’t leaked out somehow. Makes me think maybe the decision has not been made pending the end of the season.

    Would be nice to finish on a high note with a win over BSU to get to .500, but based on Moll’s analysis of bowl prospects it doesn’t look too promising for us to get a slot.
  • HawksGrad18HawksGrad18 Havighurstite
    He's staying next year guys.  He just extended him. Chuck is bringing in a good recruiting class.  He's finally willing to play younger guys.  The defense has been so much better without Junior.  Really like the stable of QBs we have after Gus graduates.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    At this point, if I had to make a wager, I also think he’ll be back.
    DevilGrad
  • He's staying next year guys.  He just extended him. Chuck is bringing in a good recruiting class.  He's finally willing to play younger guys.  The defense has been so much better without Junior.  Really like the stable of QBs we have after Gus graduates.

    Not sure that's "willingness" or simply out of necessity. 
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    Iam4hawks said:

    I've had similar thoughts and I think we can still have goals that are significant.  My thoughts have been the following: 


    Attendance: 
    20,000 avg. attendance for football
    5,000 avg. attendance for basketball
    3,000 avg. attendance for hockey
    Push for 1,000 attendance for volleyball, w basketball; 500 for baseball and 250 softball if not more. 

    Football...MAC championship every 4-5 years, .500 or better
    Tomahawk win every 3-5 years on average
    Finish in the top 50










    Over a 10-year stretch, we should consistently win 70-80% of our MAC games, be bowl eligible 4 years out of 5 and win at least half of our bowl games, win at least 1 out of 4 games against P-5 schools, sell 5,000- 10,000 season tickets for FB, 2,500 season tickets for BB
    Not all that long ago, under the prior AD, he said that we could be the Boise State of the MAC. Obviously, we dropped the ball back then but that doesn't mean that we should surrender our higher aspirations...across all sports. It's nice to see us winning some conference championships in our minor sports; we need to crank it up to get there in the major sports.
    29redhawk
  • yanksalexyanksalex Wealthy Alum

    He's staying next year guys.  He just extended him. Chuck is bringing in a good recruiting class.  He's finally willing to play younger guys.  The defense has been so much better without Junior.  Really like the stable of QBs we have after Gus graduates.

    The extension makes it much more financially tenable to fire him after this year than next.
  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    I, for one, hope that if he does stay, Chuck decides to start coaching before October.
    skinsmuredhawks22mpurdy22Quinoaburgergrumpy1Bash_RiprockMacCracken
  • The_SackmanThe_Sackman Wealthy Alum
    CalOhHawk said:

    Could someone on this board provide a complete team  injury report and potential redshirt status of the injured players? We may have an even stronger team next year depending on the QB situation. We will have depth in many positions with some excellent young players. Miami would be a good situation for the right coach. Martin still may be that coach depending on the outcome of the BSU game and how he handles himself after the game.

    For the last time, no.
    bpatgrumpy1
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    I think those goals on football performance are in fact reasonable...except for the attendance and season ticket aspirations. Yes, when we had a great winning team under Big Ben we averaged 25K per home game, and if we started consistently winning again averaging 15-20K again is a realistic goal, but I don’t believe we have ever had season ticket sales over 3,000 or so (Dick or others here may know).

    After Marshall left the MAC I thought we would be in for a period of competing for the championship and going bowling on a yearly basis. With the bowl proliferation programs like Ohio U are going bowling most very year, and at the very least that is where Chuck needs to take us...and sooner than later!
  • CalOhHawkCalOhHawk Havighurstite
    Making another request for a full team injury report and potential medical red shirt options- how much quality depth do we have at present and what will we look like next year ? D line and LB's perhaps a concern-maybe DB's depending on Iowa transfers and continuing improvement of our young DB's ( with better DB coaching and  better DB game strategy- please no more soft zone coverage esp inside our own 20 ). QB position of course also a question mark.
    ,  
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    Renmanco said:

    Frank Solich came to OU in 2005. Here's a comparison of his OOC record since 2007 through 2018 compared to ours.

    Against P-5 schools, Solich's teams are 5-13. Against non-MAC and non P-5 teams, his record is 24-6.

    Against P-5 schools, we are 1-18. Against non-MAC and non P-5 teams, we are 6-23.

    OU has won 4 more games against P-5 schools than we have over the past 12 years (while playing one less contest against P-5 opponents than we have). Against non P-5 teams, OU has 18 more wins than we do....and 17 fewer losses.

    The 4 more P-5 wins and 18 more non P-5 wins total 22 more wins over a 12 year stretch...which works out to almost two more wins a year....and helps explain OU's ability to go bowling almost every year. Further, in "eye-balling OU's schedule over the past 12 years, their OOC non P-5 schedule appears to be substantially softer than ours. (We have UC to deal with every year with an occasional softie threown in while OU almost annually feasts on the likes of Idaho, Howard, Gardner-Webb,SE Louisiana, Wofford, Cal Poly, New Mexico State, Texas State, VMI....several on multiple occasions.

    (If we include UC in the P-5 group, we are 1-30 and, against non-MAC and other non P-5 teams, we are 6-11). OU appears to schedule for Bowl eligibility while we schedule for something else.






    Just a couple more comments to round out the picture (Let's assume we beat Ball State and OU beats Akron to end our regular seasons next week).

    Over the 12 year period from 2007, all under Solich, OU will have gone 60-39 in MAC games, a 61% winning percentage. Miami, under Montgomery, Haywood, Treadwell and Martin, will have gone 41-56 in the MAC, a 42% winning percentage.

    Over the 5 years of the Martin regime, Miami will have gone 20-20 in MAC games while Solich will have gone 22-15.

    Over the past 3 years (allowing for the terrible situation Martin inherited), he will have gone 16-8 in the MAC while, during the same period, Solich will have gone 15-8. 

  • digitalhawkdigitalhawk Wealthy Alum
    So one isn't as good as everyone thinks, the other isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Great.
    dave67
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum

    He's staying next year guys.  He just extended him. Chuck is bringing in a good recruiting class.  He's finally willing to play younger guys.  The defense has been so much better without Junior.  Really like the stable of QBs we have after Gus graduates.

    Not sure that's "willingness" or simply out of necessity. 
    true...sort of what happened with Gus....but one can hope the "heat" he's (CM) taken this year has registered.
  • skinsskins Wealthy Alum
    edited November 2018

    So one isn't as good as everyone thinks, the other isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Great.



    To an extent....the fact remains OU, who we should always be equal or better than ;-)  has been better.


    And as well all know in those couple extra wins, OU's have been relevant.  Literally these last two games are the best wins or against top teams in the MAC that have happened over the CM tenure.

    That and I can't ignore that OU is Bowl eligible 10 years running.  I don't care about scheduling arguments....CM was losing to FCS schools, and two bad UC teams...so playing New Mexico St, etc was not exactly a likely win.


    I don't think most will love it...but if he wins out, and certainly a Bowl win or great showing...you have to wonder if CM has turned the corner a bit.

    JHVMUFBAlum
  • He's staying next year guys.  He just extended him. Chuck is bringing in a good recruiting class.  He's finally willing to play younger guys.  The defense has been so much better without Junior.  Really like the stable of QBs we have after Gus graduates.

    As was discussed at length earlier this year, it makes far more financial sense to let him go after this season than after next season.
  • Cincykid3Cincykid3 Wealthy Alum
    Unless Sayler has decided to go “all in” and retain Chuck long term in hopes he has “turned that corner”. I do like the way the team has responded the last three games...still have issues with some play-calling as usual.
  • RenmancoRenmanco Wealthy Alum
    Question:

    If Chuck's first year at Miami could be considered his "redshirt" year, hasn't he used up his eligibility?
    :D
    bpatCincykid3JHVMUFBAlumBoarsHeadHeroLove_and_Honor
  • El13El13 Wealthy Alum
    I’m still pissed from last year, don’t think I will ever get over it. So, this year is tough for me, we actually look like a real team, but haven’t won as many as we should. Game coaching is still a big issue, but our players look good. I hate to say it, but I think Chuck should stay, maybe get him some better assistants?
    dave67
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